Last Updated:November 17 @ 07:57 am

So Much for Freedom of Speech and Religion

By Bobby Eberle

By now, many of you have heard about the travesty committed by Barack Obama and his administration against the Catholic faith. Whether you are Catholic or not is irrelevant... it's the actions of Obama that should have everyone concerned. Now, there is more evidence of not only Obama's outward hostility toward people of faith, but his willingness to disregard the deepest foundations of our country and Constitution... freedom of speech and religion.

First, a bit of background. Two weeks ago, letters were circulated down to Catholic priests by their bishops. The letters were read at Sunday Mass and they informed those assembled that the Obama administration was making a direct assault upon them. In one year's time, Catholic universities and hospitals have been told they include health insurance coverage for their employees for such things as contraception and abortive drugs. This items are in direct conflict with Catholic religious beliefs. The letters urged action by the people to get Obama to stop.

But there is more.

As reported by Todd Starnes at FoxNews.com, Catholic priests in the military were told they could not read the letter during their sermons. According to Starnes, "the Secretary of the Army feared the letter could be viewed as a call for civil disobedience."

On Jan. 26, Archbishop Timothy Broglio emailed a letter to Catholic military chaplains with instructions that it be read from the pulpit.

A portion of the letter was obtained by Business Insider. It reads:

"In so ruling, the Obama Administration has cast aside the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, denying to Catholics our Nation's first and most fundamental freedom, that of religious liberty. And as a result, unless the rule is overturned, we Catholics will be compelled to either violate our consciences, or to drop health coverage for our employees (and suffer the penalties for doing so). The Obama Administration's sole concession was to give our institutions one year to comply."

The following day, senior chaplains received an email from the Army's Office of the Chief of Chaplains advising them that the archbishop's letter was not coordinated with their office - and instructed chaplains not to read it from the pulpit.

The letter that was asked to be read can be found at National Review Online.

So there you have it. Not only is Obama's administration fully committed to forcing Catholic institutions to violation their faith under penalty of Obamacare, but now they are telling military priests what they can and can't say during a sermon. Catholics are losing their freedom of religion, and Catholic military priests are losing their freedom of speech. Aren't these freedoms the very thing that our military is fighting for? If we lose these freedoms, how is America any different than China?

These actions go way beyond any particular religion. They are a sign of Obama's disdain for people of faith. His religion is the radical, left-wing agenda, and he is high-priest.

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77 Comments

  1. newsjunkyComment by newsjunky
    February 7, 2012 @ 9:44 am

    It appears as though this maneuver is going to backfire on him, as Catholics at long last are up in arms.  More importantly the Magisterium is fired up and finally ready to take a stand. 

    My priest, who happens to be a true man of God, read the letter in Church and was righteously irate.  Actually, I was very glad to witness the fire and brimstone of a sleeping Church that now intends to fight for their beliefs, and a congregation that appears to be willing to do the same.  I can only hope that zeal will remain, as it has become very obvious that Christians have been singled out by this administration, so have the Jews.  Only the religion of Islam has become “untouchable.”

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    • inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
      February 7, 2012 @ 10:00 am

      God always raises up Chirstian warriors in times of need to do battle in his name for truth. Obama has awakened the sleeping giant of the Christian Church who now are beginning to see his real hidden Secular agenda which is spiritual warfare against the Church. This time he has bit off more than he can chew.

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    • mcrankComment by mcrank
      February 7, 2012 @ 6:30 pm

      He is a blatant liar—he usurps authority—he violates Constitutional law—he circumvents established procedural protocol—he assaults Christian practices and principles—he stifles free speech—he caters to minority and special interest groups—he conducts himself in an undignified and arrogant manner—he belittles our Nation and its ideals—he compromises National security and scoffs at our allies—he indulges himself lavishly while so many are struggling and/or unemployed.  He does all of this with no indication of clear, intelligent reasoning nor conscience.

      Those who should call him to account for his actions exhibit no interest in doing so.  We are all at wits end—I just can’t believe he is still walking around.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 14, 2012 @ 10:31 am

      I just this article that proves that 98% number that Obama is saying use contraceptives is a lie. This study is so skewed against the Catholics church I almost can’t believe they did it. See for your self: http://www.lifenews.com/2012/02/13/figure-that-98-of-catholic-women-use-birth-control-debunked/

      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! !

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  2. wenramComment by wenram
    February 7, 2012 @ 9:51 am

    While I am not Catholic, I fully support their belief that birth control is against what God, though the Bible, is telling them to do.  I fully support the Bishops and Priests urging their parishioners to take action. When they called for “action” any REASONABLE person would interpret that as in writing their Representatives, Senators and the President’s Office.  Only someone with serious cognitive deficiencies would interpret what was written as a call to violent action.  

    I agree with newsjunky.  This IS going to backfire massively on the Obama administration.  All the more reason to vote him out of office.  

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    • inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
      February 7, 2012 @ 9:58 am

      Next Obama will seek to eliminate the Catholic Church’s tax exempt status for preaching aginst him from the pulpit, followed by the same attack on the Protestant Churches as well.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 7, 2012 @ 11:25 am

      inluminatuo. don’t you find it interesting that there have been many democrats and their messages have been spoken at churches. They have been in the news but not one word of violation of their tax exempt status. The law passed in the 1950′s was and is unconstitutional. The churches need to stand up and fight back. They need to take on the government censorship that is an affront to the 1st Amendment.
       Priest, Preachers, Ministers and the like should be allowed to speek on any subject that is moral or spiritually related. That does include abortion, contraceptives, sterilization. etc.. The church is suppose to be the moral compass of the congratulation. To prevent this is just criminal.   
       
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! !

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    • gimmesometruthComment by gimmesometruth
      February 7, 2012 @ 11:36 am

      Inliminatuo,  It has already happened.  The Presbyterian Church [PCUSA] is being torn apart by godless, secular progressives who have taken control of the national organization to institute changes to their Book of Order, allowing for openly, and unrepentent, gay & lesbian pastors.  Any church which disagrees and wants to leave will feel the full weight of their legal team, and have their property confiscated, or required to pay a heavy ransom.  Sounds like Obamacare with an opt-out.

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    • inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
      February 7, 2012 @ 6:20 pm

       
      Just what is happening to the Presbyterian Church, a once great Christian organization?
       
      My reprobate ex step-son-in-law Minister got caught up in a Craig’s List prostitution solicitation sting. His 10 minutes of immediate gratification cost him job, cost him wife, kids, home, retirement with daughter attempting suicide. He finally admitted to same sex liaisons as well. This wolf in sheep’s clothing talked a good game like Obama, but when your back was turned devoured the innocence of those entrusted to his care.
       
      “Yet still the ancient foe doth seek to work us woe,
       
      His craft and power are great, and armed with cruel hate
       
      On Earth is not his equal.”
       
      Martin Luther the real,,,,not the King
       

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  3. inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
    February 7, 2012 @ 9:54 am

     
    “And as a result, unless the rule is overturned, we Catholics will be compelled to either violate our consciences, or to drop health coverage for our employees (and suffer the penalties for doing so)”
     
    Once again the Law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head to reveal what happens every time the Socialist man-God government intrudes into the private rights and privileges of the individual soul. Every time these Secular Socialists attempt to play God, they produce the very opposite of what they propose with their mouths and laws, but the very thing they seek in their hearts which is to capture your heart and spirit to enslave it to their darkest desires.
     
    They cry separation of Church and State with their mouths, but in their deeds attempt to separate the people’s spirits from their souls to serve a secular government agenda of a Socialist Utopia where there is no need for the infinite God of our fathers who they would now replace with their by the newly elevated finite Man-God socialists from whom all our blessing must now flow.
     
    You CANNOT call yourself a Christian and continue to vote in the worst demon captives who would have us worship at the altar of the pleasures they offer, the temporary pleasures of the immediate gratification which always corrupts and leads to our ultimate demeaning destruction.. This election is indeed the battle for the very heart and soul of the American Spirit which is demeaned every time Obama shows his true colors.
     

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  4. thomknoxvileComment by thomknoxvile
    February 7, 2012 @ 10:04 am

    Please do not get upset with me, but what is all the hub-bub about?  An item is offered does not mean you have to use it.

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    • navywifeComment by navywife
      February 7, 2012 @ 10:15 am

      The problem is that Catholic institutions will be forced to provide coverage for these services for their employees.  The result is that to comply with the law, the Catholic church would have to pay for contraception, abortion-inducing drugs and sterilization for any employee who wants these services.

      Technically, there is a religious exemption; however, the administration has chosen the most restrictive version.  That is, the exemption only applies if substantially all employees and all people served by the organization are of that religion.  So a Catholic university, hospital, homeless shelter or soup kitchen has a choice: fire all non-Catholics and only help Catholics, pay for services that violate church teachings, or break the law and be fined. 

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 7, 2012 @ 10:35 am

      There is more than the violation of freedoms.  There is also the problem of who has the power, which is the central problem with Obamacare in the first place.

      Who places the order needs to be the one who pays for it

      It is within the power of an individual to determine risk to health and actions to keep it

      Because there are risk not under our control, which are beyond an individual’s means to sustain the loss, we have pooled our resources to lower the potential loss

      This is the reason for insurance

      Once the burden of responsibility is lifted from an individual’s actions and placed on everyone else, it will drive up cost

      Please explain how one cannot pay for their own cost from their sexual practices?

      Please explain how a choice to not be responsible is the responsibility of everyone else to pay for it?

      Please explain how it is a risk which is not in a person’s power to pay for it and why are they taking such a risk if they cannot?

      This is why Obamacare will do nothing but drive up cost and drive down quantity and quality of healthcare for everyone else

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    • ncmaukComment by ncmauk
      February 7, 2012 @ 12:41 pm

      It is a demand by the government that they act in a direct conflict with the belief of their faith. Look at it in view of different beliefs, it is the same as the government demanding that all muslims either eat pork or be heavily fined, or that all Jews either pray through an intermediatary diety or pay up the money. To demand that any religious group act against thier faith and beliefs is a violation of the seperation of church and state and means that the government has decided that they will control what and how you will worship.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 7, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

      “It is a demand by the government that they act in a direct conflict with the belief of their faith”

      Agree

      However, it is more than just holding a belief, it is these beliefs have a value, and explaining this value in everyday terms is what people can see

      First and foremost, when a government takes to trampling on the beliefs of any it is a threat to the beliefs of all

      Second, beliefs are held because it can be empirically demonstrated that they have a value, and this value is derived from the actions of each individual.  Essentially, one reaps what they sow, but when the government allows those who sow weeds to live at the expense of those who grow what is good to eat, they not only take food from the mouth of those doing the work but allow the weed seeders to have a say in how to grow the food which is good to eat.

      What really needs to be done, if people don’t like the results they get from their life, stop doing those things which cause them, rather than get the government to steal from everyone else to reward fruitless labor

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    • VickiComment by Vicki
      February 7, 2012 @ 1:53 pm

      Look at it in view of different beliefs, it is the same as the government demanding that all muslims either eat pork or be heavily fined,

      A more consistant example would be the government demanding that all Muslim institutions OFFER pork on the menu of their employee cafeteria.

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    • inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
      February 7, 2012 @ 6:30 pm

      It is high past time that the voters demand Obama just eat his words.

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  5. prairelivingComment by praireliving
    February 7, 2012 @ 10:27 am

    Because the focus of this new mandate has been about Catholic institutions being required to provide services against their moral conscience something very important has not been highlighted.

    This mandate affects every health insurance policy in the US.  Therefore, as a devout Catholic I will not be able to find a policy that does not violate my conscience.  So, my choice is to pay premiums for a policy that violates my moral conscience and go against my faith…or, drop health insurance for our family (including our small children) and follow what my faith requires.  Currently, our health insurance policy does NOT pay for contraception, many of which are abortion causing, and abortion (neither surgical nor chemical with drugs).  After this mandate goes through they will be required to. 

    The arguement of “if it is against your conscience, then don’t use it” really doesn’t pertain.  You see, I am going to be required to pay for it no matter what.  And, if history repeats itself I’ll even be able to see how much I am paying for these “free” services for others.  When the PPACA ruling on “free preventitive screenings” went into effect in the fall of 2011 I saw my premiums go up $150 a month, or $1,800 a year on top of the almost $800 a month we were already paying.

    When the government begins to act in a tyrannical way and starts taking religious rights away from one group it won’t be long before they take away from others.  What will be next, Jewish hospitals no longer allowed to provide circumcisions (almost happened in San Francisco), Indian restaurants forced to serve beef, Christians no longer allowed to wear crosses in public schools?   Do we really want to live in a society where our rights are decided by the government.  That is clearly not what our founding fathers wanted, they stated that our right to Liberty is God given.  Now the state is trying to take those rights away.  We must fight back or we will suffer for many years to come.

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  6. EHeasslerComment by EHeassler
    February 7, 2012 @ 10:28 am

    I served in the armed forces for 31 years sworn to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Little did I realize that the most dangerous enemy that I would face would occupy the WH in the person of Barack Obama. I think that his lawmaking through regulation is in clear violation of the Constitution and that if I were still serving as a Catholic serviceman today, I could only feel discriminated against as well as abondoned by my Commander-In-Chief. I would seriously have to consider telling him that since you’ve decided that my beliefs are no longer relevant, “I’m done serving here and I’m going home! Consequences be dammned, you can’t tell me what and how to believe and how to spend my money.”

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    • sonny1Comment by sonny1
      February 7, 2012 @ 12:07 pm

      TOO MANY PEOPLE ON THE GOVERMENT TAKE(OBAMA’S) WHO WANT TO KEEP OBAMA IN OFFICE! EVERY ONE( CONSERVITIV)E I TALK TO IS AFRAID HE WILL BE REELECTED.

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  7. waterwayComment by waterway
    February 7, 2012 @ 12:03 pm

    You are all missing the point.  This is about workers rights.  When the Church enters into a business that is not simply about worship, it is not about freedom of speech or whatever.  It is about receiving Federal funds and employing those outside of your faith.  They deserve equal benefits as provided to others in that business.  You cannot hide behind the faith thing.  Also, separation of church and state means you cannot base legislation on religious materials such as the Bible any more than you can use the Koran.
    You also need to get a grip on this whole Catholic thing.  The vast majority of Catholics don’t abide by the whole anti-contraception thing anyway.  In addition, the cheapest and most effective way to reduce abortions is through contraception.  How ridiculous is this anyway?  The Catholic Church leadership needs to accept reality.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 7, 2012 @ 12:20 pm

      Rights are known by the ability to respond, thus the word responsibility

      If a worker has the ability (power) to pay for their own healthcare, why do they need an insurance policy to pay for what they have the ability to pay for out of pocket?

      It does not make any sense

      What does make sense is setting up the program to force the responsible to pay for the actions of the irresponsible, and has nothing to do with health or healthcare, other than to destroy both

      So it seems it is you who are missing the point

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 7, 2012 @ 12:56 pm

      warterway, This has nothing to do with workers rights. To my knowledge the Catholic hospitals are non profits and provide better service and health care to the public. I don’t know if or how much the Catholic hospitals get. i do know that if money is provided to them it is used for the less fortunate who just show up at the ER. Mostly Hispanics in CA
       As for workers they know what the benefits are before they go to work. Unless of coarse you are too dumb to ask before accepting the job. No one forces you to chose where you work. If you don’t like find another job.
       Also this is about freedom of religious belief and the right to follow your beliefs. No where in the constitution does it guarantee you the right to health care and no where in the constitution does it give the government the right to force it upon you. no where does it give you the right to force what services you provide.
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! ! !

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    • AbbycatComment by Abbycat
      February 7, 2012 @ 1:23 pm

      No, waterway, this is not about “workers rights”.  A church-based ministry that happens to offer services of some kind, not just worship, does not set aside their beliefs in order to conduct business.  Potential employees aren’t forced to work for a Catholic or any other faith-based employer.  For example, someone who wishes to work for Catholic Charities should understand what the mission and mindset of that organization is, and if they don’t agee with it, go work somewhere else.  These organizations are not “hiding behind the faith thing”.  Private businesses and individuals have a right to do business in accordance with the beliefs of their own church. The fact that many Catholics don’t abide by the anti-contraception rule of the Church is also no excuse, as even those who use contraceptives themselves don’t want to be forced to pay for the contraception of others through their health insurance plans.  Finally, it may be you who needs to accept some reality:  there is no “separation of church & state” clause in the Constitution, as many liberals seem to believe.

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    • jc711Comment by jc711
      February 7, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

      Water-on-the-Brain,
      You REALLY have missed the point !  It is not your job to educate the Catholic Church (of which I am NOT a part ) on what is best: contraception, no contraception, abortion, etc.
      The point is that this godless faker in the white house is trying to impose his DECREES on a group, and HIS DECREES go 100% against, AGAINST  what they believe.  He feels it’s ok to impose upon Catholics ( and Jews, and Hindus, etc ) because he doesn’t respect them.  The only reason he doesn’t go ISLAMOphobic on the muslims is because he’s afraid of them. I don’t know if he worships allah…. ( I think he only worships himSELF  ) …  But he is  AFRAID  of the muslims and does not dare anger them, even to the point of correctly preparing binladen’s corpse.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      February 7, 2012 @ 3:07 pm

      Contraception in the form of pills, etc really is not healthcare. There is no reason for any health insurance to pay for it except that it might be cheaper than paying for subsequent maternity care. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes. Why should your health insurance pay for contraception? 

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    • celticwaryorComment by celticwaryor
      February 7, 2012 @ 4:41 pm

      waterway states; “In addition, the cheapest and most effective way to reduce abortions is through contraception.”  I beg to differ.  The cheapest and MOST effective way to reduce abortions is by abstaining!

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    • donaComment by dona
      February 7, 2012 @ 11:56 pm

      A fundamental belief of the Catholic Church is that all life is a gift from God, from the moment of conception to death.  The Church does not and should not change any fundamental beliefs based on what’s popular at the time.  The Church does not change based on who’s president, king or emperor at the time.  The Church is held accountable to a much higher power. To tell the Catholic Church it must pay for abortifacients, sterilization and contraceptive services denies Catholic institutions the right to the free exercise of religion (1st Amendment in the Constitution).  Personally, as a Catholic, I don’t want our leadership to, as you say, accept reality.  I want our leadership to stand firm to the teachings of the church.  

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  8. gimmesometruthComment by gimmesometruth
    February 7, 2012 @ 12:58 pm

    “The Catholic Church leadership needs to accept reality”

     Do you mean the reality that most faith-based endeavors are ministry outreaches, not businesses?
    Do you mean the reality that most employees agree with the mission statement of these entities?
    Do you mean the reality that contraception alone will not prevent unwanted pregnancies or unwanted STD’s?
    Do you mean the reality that abstainence is the cheapest and most effective way to eliminate abortions and STD’s?
    Faith-based ministries have learned a valuable reality lesson in this:  Don’t make a deal with the devil unless you’re willing to serve him.  

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  9. waterwayComment by waterway
    February 7, 2012 @ 1:08 pm

    Boy, where do I start here.  “Contraception alone does not prevent unwanted pregnancies.”?  It might not be 100% but pretty close.  The abstinence thing?  So this is really an anti-sex issue is it not?  Condoms can prevent STDs but the Church is against them as well.  If the hospitals were all faith-based then they should be free to all (not).  As for being able to pay for your own healthcare, exactly who is that?  Perhaps the very wealthy, but the number of people who lose their homes due to health issues is astronomical.  Where have you been?  And the people who use the emergency room for healthcare end up pushing the cost on to those of us with insurance and us who pay taxes.  We all end up paying so that others do not contribute.  Healthcare is a hidden tax on us all.  Republicans should hate this.  This whole church and religion thing is just a smoke-screen to hide real issues, just like all of the social issues are.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 7, 2012 @ 1:23 pm

      How is the cost of contraception such a catastrophic expense we all need to pool our resources to pay for it?

      What do condoms cost?

      This is why this is so ridiculous

      Am sure an abortion will cost more than a condom but why not buy private insurance rather than have everyone else pick up the tab for reckless and irresponsible behavior?

      Or do you think people have sex because they were planning (thinking ahead) of having an abortion?

      No, they get abortions because they could not be bothered to be responsible for their own life and think everyone else needs to pay for it

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  10. jc711Comment by jc711
    February 7, 2012 @ 1:15 pm

    Jota, above,  is correct when she questions WHY everyone has to pay for the irresponsible nature of the sexual practices of another.  I take it another step:
    I don’t want to pay for the lung cancer of smokers, the lap-band procedures of
    those who eat junk food all day, huge quantities of greasy, sugary food but never
    get up off their enormous butts… etc.  We should NOT have to pay for other peoples’
    mistakes, therefore we should NOT have ObamCare, and we should not have ObamaCare  F O R C E D  upon us. There are plenty of Democrats out there ( I even know some ! ) who vote D every time yet they do NOT want ObamaCare. It is OUR responsibility to educate them on this:  We have O N E chance to repeal this monstrosity, and this is it. If bHUSSEIN stays in there, we can NEVER get rid of ObamaCare.  So they have to vote R, even if only this ONE time. Please tell them, I have been spreading the word, and they do “get it”…   

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 7, 2012 @ 1:59 pm

      The objective of a nanny state is to render all as helpless children because it is job security

      If one wants more of a particular behavior reward it

      If one wants less of a particular behavior ignore it or punish it

      What do we see?

      Responsible individual behavior being punished

      Irreponsible individual behavior being rewarded

      Why?

      Government is rewarded.

      It is a lot easier to steal from the responsible than it is to hold the irresponsible accountable

      After all holding the irresponsible accountable is an expense, or a punishment, as any parent knows who loves their children and wants them to find the good in life.

      Parents do it because they know a little pain now will prevent a lifetime of it, but then the government is there to punish parents for doing it, government cannot run the risk of having children grow up and be responsible adults, to hard to control

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  11. F.R. DuplantierComment by F.R. Duplantier
    February 7, 2012 @ 1:24 pm

    IN HOC SIGNO VINCES
    Raise high the holy cross
    And show them Who is boss:
    Fight the merchants of death
    With every breath
    And never count the cost.

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  12. nanceComment by nance
    February 7, 2012 @ 3:35 pm

    The very title of this article suggests defeat…,this man will be stopped in his tracks faster than you know.. he is an *** to think otherwise..Canada  yes, France yes, all  the rest of the old world who is so used to being pushed around yes this I can understand and I do not sympathize with whatever plight they suffer from  but not here in a land represented by every country on earth coming here, from a beaten down old world .with so many different people here it is more difficult to accomplish unity of spirit to stand up to these impostors in the WH — hey! give POTUS an inch and he’ll take this as his advantage to gain a bit more little by little – what I don’t understand is how the people  who  voted for this man did not look into him and his ilk before they pulled the levers but Obama knew this because he had studied the mores and norms the USA and knew with a few lies repeated over and over he would gain their votes and then turn everything upside down.. I know people who laugh and say  hey! Yeah! I voted for the guy so what?.. ignorant,  selfish, vain, all fools for not paying more attention to what voting means – I know old women who cry because they voted for him  because” he was soooo.. oh I don’t know!.” what happened to the wisdom of old age….ignoramuses all .. but that’s history and I would suggest fools take into consideration their stupidity and get serious about their lives..what a tragedy we all are to allow these frequent inroads into our very lives to happen in the first place.  

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  13. tondebComment by tondeb
    February 7, 2012 @ 4:35 pm

    I wonder when the WH will decree that Muslim businesses, mosqes etc have to serve pork to those persons in their organizations. 

    pork is a health food so the writer who wrote this is right let us now go on to food
    Contraception in the form of pills, etc really is not healthcare. There is no reason for any health insurance to pay for it except that it might be cheaper than paying for subsequent maternity care. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes. Why should your health insurance pay for contraception

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  14. trumper2Comment by trumper2
    February 7, 2012 @ 4:59 pm

    to Abbycat
    Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, Amendment I  ”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”.  What it does NOT say is freedom FROM religion, which is where ‘the rub comes in”.  Liberals, Progressives, Democrats or whatever you want to call them think it is freedom FROM religion that is allowed in our God-given Constitution.  We can not afford to let this thought continue.  If you have not studied the Constitution since high school, please find a course and study it.  You might be surprised that most of what you were taught in high school is/was incorrect.  The “Institution of the Constitution” is a really good place to start.

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    • F.R. DuplantierComment by F.R. Duplantier
      February 7, 2012 @ 5:19 pm

      Here’s a primer: http://politickles.com/blog/?p=5042

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  15. cxComment by genesal
    February 7, 2012 @ 6:17 pm

    We no longer have a Constitution, O’bwana has shrunk it to a Constit.  Pun intended,.

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  16. jeffpatComment by jeffpat
    February 7, 2012 @ 7:23 pm

    I don’t get what the fuss is about. Should the Orthodox Jews who oppose war for religious reasons get tax exemptions for their collective share of the US military budget? Should Mormon employers be allowed to provide insurance that doesn’t treat medical conditions resulting from drinking and smoking? Through taxes or insurance, every American pays for some services or policies they don’t agree with. The system wouldn’t work otherwise. The government is not telling Catholics that they have to practice birth control. They’re telling Catholics that they can’t impose their religious beliefs on others by refusing their rights to practice it.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 7, 2012 @ 11:42 pm

      What is it you don’t get, Jeffpat?

      Why I do not have to pay for your decisions?  Not the collective decisions of our government, YOURS?

      If you want contraceptives and abortions why cannot you pay for them?  Why does everyone else have to pay for some thing you choose to do and can afford?

      There is only one reason, to impose a social agenda

      How is it you don’t have a problem with it?  Or for that matter even see it as someone imposing their beliefs on everyone else and then forcing everyone to pay for it?

      This is all about beliefs, Obama and gang believe it is good for everyone to pay for contraceptives and abortions, not that it has any bases in fact. In fact it has no bases at all. 

      It does not benefit me in the least to pay for irresponsible and reckless behavior it only causes more of it

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    • luxetveritas1Comment by luxetveritas1
      February 8, 2012 @ 1:40 am

      Jeffpat, which Orthodox Jews are you referring to exactly?  Please refer to Deuternomy and other biblical text before making ridiculous comparisons. The commandments are NOT referring to military or state actions, especially in regards to defense.

      Comparing taxation for a military defense systems to government mandates for killing children and increasing breast cancer risk among women who take birth control is illogical. 

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    • snowhawkComment by snowhawk
      February 8, 2012 @ 11:34 am

       
      Note to Jota: Why is it that We the American People are forced because of the Catholic Churches rules on contraception to pay for the birthing and welfare of millions of babies born into the Catholic Church each year to parents who can’t afford them. I paid to raise and educate my nine please explain why I should because of total ignorance or Religious beliefs be forced to pay for someone else s. This is why we have a freedom of choice so that the intelligent amongst us can be responsible in our decisions as to what we can and can not afford when it comes to child rearing.. It would seem the Catholic Church feels no such Responsibility.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 8, 2012 @ 12:52 pm

      “Why is it that We the American People are forced because of the Catholic Churches rules on contraception to pay for the birthing and welfare of millions of babies born into the Catholic Church each year to parents who can’t afford them.”

      Would you please provide some references to back this statement

      Particularly, “forced because of the Catholic Churches” (NOTE it is Church, not Churches) “millions of babies born”"each year to parents who can’t afford them”

      http://www.businessinsider.com/americas-birth-rate-declined-for-the-third-year-running-2011-8#ixzz1V1D2X8rk
      The provisional count of births in the United States for 2010 (12-month period ending December 2010) was 4,007,000.

      I think if you check your fact you will find your conclusion is in error for this reason

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  17. Pingback: How Obama May Lose the Catholics | The Write Side of My Brain

  18. truedeelComment by truedeel
    February 7, 2012 @ 7:54 pm

    This mandate should be of concern to every american, not just Catholics.  What is being forced down everyone’s throat is mandatory health coverage for something that isn’t even a health issue.  I realize we have come to accept birth control as some form of treatment, but in reality it is not.  The pill is not a vacine nor a cure.  Unless we have become so degenerate we are calling pregnancy a desease or ailment there is no condition to protect against or treat.  It is sad if people feel their very existence is the result of a malignancy left untreated due to insufficient health care coverage.        

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  19. wdjincComment by wdjinc
    February 7, 2012 @ 8:05 pm

    The anti-Christianity trend continues. What happened in Nazi Germany and Austria and also to Communists Russia is slowly happening here. Hitler’s goons closed churches, arrested priests and same happened  in Russia. Christianity rose up once Germany was defeated and now in Russia Christianity is rising once more.

    The churches and clergy cannot afford to remain silent any longer. It’s about time they defended their faith and their followers. 

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  20. undertheword72Comment by undertheword72
    February 7, 2012 @ 10:30 pm

    What most people do not realize is That “OBAMA” is demonizing the “USA”! He is much closer to being a “DEMON” than he is to being a “Christian”! The other day when he called himself a “Christian”, and misquoted the scripture, he proved to one and all that he is after nothing but “POWER”. He definitely wants to be a “DICTATOR” so bad, that, He must lose some sleep, most every night! May “GOD” save us from this evil man!

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  21. lcpeterson57Comment by lcpeterson57
    February 7, 2012 @ 10:54 pm

    First of all Bobby Eberle, please proofread your articles; mistakes take away from all the adrenalin they produce.

    Second, I appreciate all the perspectives the other commenters have shared. I’m glad the Catholic “sleeping giant” has “awakened,” although I don’t understand how any Christian worth his “salt” could not have been aware of the religious manipulations our Congress and Supreme Court have been thrusting upon us for decades. Well, if this finally gets them interested, that’s good.

    Understand that most people think that the birth control pill prevents pregnancy. In most cases, when used correctly, it does. But what most people don’t know is that birth control pills can cause an abortion (not a miscarriage!) by creating an environment in the womb where the fertilized egg cannot implant in the uterine wall, and is flushed out with the next period.

    The Catholics are correct in their teaching about not using contraception. Artificial hormones are harmful to women, and other devices have the same abortafacient properties along with other risks.

    Those of you familiar with prophecy know that these political problems are precursors to the rapture and Armageddon. Too bad Obama only knows Islamic prophecy. His administration will figure significantly in the demise of our great nation and ultimately the Lord’s second coming.

     

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  22. JDZComment by JDZ
    February 7, 2012 @ 11:16 pm

    When the Obamacare legislation was going through Congress, there was a group of congressional members who could have killed the bill because they were against the legislation allowing federal funding (taxpayer money) to fund abortions, so, under duress, Obama wrote a letter stating that the legislation would not pay for abortion services. So, now, the government is going to force private medical insurance policies to include coverage for contraception, including abortions? So, now the Catholic hospitals have a choice, refuse to provide medical insurance and pay the government fine ($750 per employee) or be forced to include contraception in their private coverage, when contraception through the rhythm method is the only form of contraception allowed within the Catholic religion. And, Obama knows this and refuses to give the Catholic institutions (charities, hospitals, etc) an exemption from this mandate.

    Friends, enough is enough. How much more of this “dictator-in-chief” are we to tolerate? At some point in the timeline, the American people must wake up and admit that Obama is a bad apple and poison for this country. Maybe this issue with the Catholics in our country is the needed wake up call, at least I hope so.

    The Christians in this country need to rise above their political party affiliation and take a hard look at Obama and what he is doing to this country and it’s fundamental Judea-Christian heritage and values, and it is not pretty. He is playing a role and has done an excellent job of creating an image that is totally contrary to what he actually does in his policies and actions. He does not “Walk the Talk”.

    He does not believe in our core American values as he continually does things contrary to the Constitution that he swore to uphold. He is a modern version of the “Manchurian Candidate” (read the book or rent the movie).

    The Christians need to band together and help vote this man out of the Whitehouse this fall before he totally screws us all over in his obsession to transform America into his perverted vision of a socialist country run by a small group of “chosen” elitists led by him. If he is re-elected there will be no stopping what he has started which is a disaster across the board.

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  23. jeffpatComment by jeffpat
    February 8, 2012 @ 1:54 am

    To Jota:

    This is a response to my comment made January 7, 11:42

    Jota, Am I correct in assuming that you don’t believe that an insurance plan should cover contraceptives or abortions, because that would be an individual’s choice? Therefore, if preventing the birth of a child is a person’s choice then so is allowing that birth. Do you also oppose maternity leave laws, insurance subsidized pre-natal care, maternity and birthing costs, pediatric care, and free public education as a result of a person’s choice to have a child?  If you do oppose this, then I applaud your anti-social agenda position. If you don’t oppose these public supported expenses, then you are just as committed to a social agenda as those who support reproductive rights. It’s just a different agenda. By the way, I don’t want to insult you, but you are aware that abortion is forbidden under Obamacare. If not, read the Stupak-Pitts Amendment to the healthcare bill.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 8, 2012 @ 2:24 am

      You are not correct in assuming I am opposed to contraceptives or abortions being a part of an insurance plan because that would be an individual’s choice

      In a nutshell, the reason we want good health is a desire for life.  Which means the real goal is to never need to use an insurance plan, and that comes from reducing risk from wise judgments, not from being reckless and irresponsible, nor making others pick up the cost for our own poor decisions

      The second thing, giving away contraceptives is making an assumption a person will be responsible in using it, but would not be if it cost a buck or two

      Two buck is too high a price so they will then get pregnant and need an abortion

      But if it is free then they will be responsible

      Which is just pure stupidity because a person only learns what is the correct response from facing the risk of loss.  It provides the feedback necessary for a person to develop correct judgment, but if everyone is picking up the cost what is the risk????

      It is a system designed to get more irresponsible and reckless behavior not less

      But of course, you being all wise and all knowing, know exactly how to live everyone else’s life by not letting them face the consequences of their actions because they are stupid and only you are smart

      So much for self government and why liberals keep putting out the nanny state, only they are smart enough to decide how everyone else should live

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  24. jeffpatComment by jeffpat
    February 8, 2012 @ 2:11 am

    This is in response to a reply that I got to my comment on Feb 8, @1:40 am

    To Luxefverital

    I’m referring to the Jews who are exempt from military service in Israel and who were also exempt from military service in the US during the days of the draft. I chose the Jews, but you can find examples of many religious groups who have been exempt from military service in the past because of their religious beliefs. I’m not sure, but I think the Amish may be another example. If you take issue with my picking out the Jews, then pick your own example. Your passionate objection against comparing war to abortion is the perfect example of my point. You clearly support our military, but oppose abortion rights. There are other people, with just as sound reasoning as yours, who take an opposite position. By the way, speaking of children being killed, how many Iraqi children do you think our military killed during that unjust war?

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  25. jeffpatComment by jeffpat
    February 8, 2012 @ 6:16 am

    This is a response to Jota’s comment Feb 8th, 2012 @2:24

    To Jota

    I certainly never claimed to know what is best for everybody – or anybody for that matter. As a matter of fact, when it comes to issues like contraception, abortion and family planning, I agree with you. These issues are far too complex and personal to assume that anybody can judge the reasons a person makes the decisions they do. Like you, I’m all for free choice. I guess a couple of differences that we have involve the cost of an abortion. If you think that the primary cost of an abortion is financial, then I would suggest that you read some testimonials of women who have suffered them. The emotional costs, and the physical suffering can far outweigh the dollars spent.
    I understand how restricting a woman’s access to abortion changes her set of choices, but I don’t understand how it increases them as you suggested. You said that people who want abortion or contraceptive services should pay for it themselves. What if they can’t pay for it themselves? What if it’s through no fault of their own; like a woman whose husband ran out on her two months into the pregnancy? Should we rank abortion as another one of those services that can only be accessed by the wealthy?

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 8, 2012 @ 8:56 am

      “Should we rank abortion as another one of those services that can only be accessed by the wealthy?”

      in other words, poor me, I make reckless, irresponsible decisions in life which has caused me to now need money I don’t have to pay for the cost of those reckless, irresponsible decisions

      Seems to me the solution is to stop making reckless, irresponsible decisions rather than making everyone else poor by spending their hard earned money bailing them out.

      As to your example of a woman whose husband ran out on her, why is the only option now an abortion?

      Should only the wealth be able to raise their kids?

      That is what what liberals are telling you. 

      They do not want a system which allows for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

      They want a system of death, slavery, being poor in body and spirit because they love the feeling they get from solving others problems by offering them the easy way out, while failing to recognize it is the freedom to struggle for life which makes it worth living, happy.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 8, 2012 @ 10:51 am

      jeffpat, your arguments are juvenile at best. For your information the rich are less likely to need an abortion. The cost of an abortion is less than $500. hardly a cost that only the wealthy can afford. you can even buy condoms (by the multipack) at the .99 cent store. If they cant pay for that they are just cheep or stupid. Either way i should not be forced to pay for anyone else mistakes.
       In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.
       In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker.
       The home of the typical poor family was not overcrowded and was in good repair. In fact, the typical poor American had more living space than the average European. The typical poor American family was also able to obtain medical care when needed. By its own report, the typical family was not hungry and had sufficient funds during the past year to meet all essential needs.
      Poor families certainly struggle to make ends meet, but in most cases, they are struggling to pay for air conditioning and the cable TV bill as well as to put food on the table. Their living standards are far different from the images of dire deprivation promoted by activists and the mainstream media.
      All the above information was available at MSN but they took it down. Here is a link with more info. http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty
       Also I read that most families living below the poverty level have at least one car and 30% of those families have two cars. So I don’t see $500 a great burden. 
      Last thing I want to say: ABORTION IS MURDER!
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! !

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    • snowhawkComment by snowhawk
      February 8, 2012 @ 12:13 pm

       
      Reply to Onewildman: You morons have the right to make all the stupid remarks you wish but quite simply until a child has taken it’s first breath it is not ( LET ME REPETE THAT IS NOT) a viable life. Of course we can always ask one of your true believers if we can yank a second trimester baby out of her womb to have a little talk with it. If you ask I have the number of a real good deprogramer.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 8, 2012 @ 12:57 pm

      snowhawk, The only moron here is you! The Catholic orphanages have raised, fed, clothed, and housed more unwanted children than any other organization in this country. You have know knowledge of what the Catholic Church does They have done more than their share and continue to do so. Life starts at conception it grows therefor it is alive just like a seed in a garden.
       Taking a baby’s first breath is the moment of being able to live on your own. A baby is just as alive before that moment as it is afterwards. You also can be charged with murder of an unborn child if by hurting the mother you kill the child. Murder is murder regardless what you think.
       You should also know that the person who started Planed Parenthood was racist and was using this to reduce the minority’s in the US. Even Jessy Jackson was against it at first and called it a way to get rid of blacks. For reasons only known to him he changed his tune and said it’s about women rights. I assume he was bought off. Charles Darwin also advocated elimination of the black race. As he believed man could not further evolve if the blacks were left to thrive.
       As you have no real arguments just name calling and unsupported facts. I see you as just another troll who has drank too much of that Obama-aid. You know nothing about the Catholic Church and I doubt you are a doctor or biologist. There is no more pivotal moment in the subsequent growth and development of a human being than when 23 chromosomes of the father join with 23 chromosomes of the mother to form a unique, 46-chromosomed individual, with a gender, who had previously simply not existed. Period. No debate.
       
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! ! ! !

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  26. snowhawkComment by snowhawk
    February 8, 2012 @ 11:03 am

     
    This is exactly why we have a separation of Church and State. There’s no attack upon the stinking Catholic Church, I’ll remind Catholics that I’m forced to pay for the birthing and welfare of millions of anchor babies born into the Catholic Church each year, this has to do with the Catholic Corporation. A Corporation that is denying many of its workers there lawful right to personal choice. If the Church doesn’t like laws that effect all businesses and institution of learning in America I would suggest it get out of the secular world of business and education. What next the Church raises an army to start killing, as it has done through out its history to enforce it’s beliefs upon the masses. I as an American would most welcome the chance to rid my Nation of the largest group of un-appreciative un-assimalated hyphenates in the Country today. How soon we forget that a Nation, first settled by those wishing to rid themselves of this Church, welcomed a starving people to its shores without a thought of its impending challenges to the very foundations of it’s Constitution. Thank God my Forefathers had the foresight to plain ahead, by insuring a total separation of Church and State, for just this sort of attack. I’ve E-mailed all those serving in Congress along with the Nations criminal AG demanding and immediate end to the Catholic Churches tax exemption. It’s time this Church got back to the Business of saving the souls of it’s own lot and got out of the business of We the American People.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 8, 2012 @ 11:25 am

       People who founded this country did so to escape religious persecution from people like you. Your statement show your knowledge sorely lacking in the History of our nations founders.
       No one forces you to work for any religious affiliated institutions. As for those anchor babies. Them being born here is in know way the Catholic religions fault. That lies squarely on the shoulder of the governments inaction and the liberal members who are trying destroy this country.
       lets go to faith. To believe in God takes faith. Everybody knows that. Well the same goes for theory of evolution. It has never been proven. Even with millions of fossil records. Know one not even the most intelligence person can prove the theory evolution. They can only say they believe. They call that faith not proof. Einstein believed in God not evolution and the last theory he was working on was called “The Theory of Everything” That was to prove that God exist.
       
       There is no separation of church and state in the constitution and never has been. people like you just keep repeating that same old lie over and over. Quit showing your ignorance!
       IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! !

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    • snowhawkComment by snowhawk
      February 8, 2012 @ 1:13 pm

       
      Note to onewildman: It s the out right communist style propaganda and total misunderstanding of this Nations Constitution by people like yourself that cause the sort of confusion we’re seeing here today. The first non native settlers here were as you stated fleeing persecution, not from people like myself, from the life controlling Church of England and its mother the Catholic Church. The millions of anchor babies We tax payers of all beliefs, that’s right in America there are those of us who are allowed different beliefs, are being forced to pay for are a direct result of the Catholic Churches refusal tho allow it’s members the sensible use of birth control.
      I agree that it is the fault of those on both sides of the isle that E-Verify, the major end all to our illegal immigration problem, has not been made law.
      As to evolution? The science world just announced yesterday that they have in fact found the ten fold great grandmother of all human life in a Namibian National park. The fossils, many were found, changes all that was known in that these fossils are 150,000,000 years old. I sincerely hope that doesn’t shake the foundations of your beliefs.
      For your information those people like me, who are We the American People who’s Forefathers founded this Nation, find, as does the Supreme Court, the Separation between Church and State in the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment of this Nations Constitution.

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    • philwynkComment by philwynk
      February 8, 2012 @ 1:18 pm

      What our founders were protecting, snowhawk, when they passed the 1st Amendment to the Constitution was liberty of conscience. Their notion was that no person, nor any church, should be forced to perform for the government any service that their conscience prevents them from performing, nor be prevented from serving their God as their conscience demands. It was passed to keep Congress from mucking around in church polity, or from forcing citizens to finance missionaries from denominations with which they disagreed.

      It may surprise you to learn that all the clauses in the 1st Amendment were written to protect the people, not the government. Congress cannot pass laws “respecting an establishment of religion”: in other words, the government has no jurisdiction over practice inside any church (a church is an “establishment of religion.”) If you take the phrase to mean “the government can’t create a national religion (an incorrect reading of the phrase, but we’ll go with it for the moment), then it means the government can’t force adherents of one religion to obey the specific dictates of another religion. Congress cannot “prohibit the free exercise [of religion]” means Congress can’t put roadblocks in the path of people expressing their religion openly.

      I don’t see anything there giving the Executive power to force doctors to perform services they choose not to perform, or insurance companies to insure what they choose not to ensure. If the Executive has that power, then doctors and insurers are slaves of the state. The separation you claim to love is being violated — in the other direction. It’s the State that’s piercing the wall and attacking the Church, by forcing doctors and insurers of faith to violate their consciences. Which is what the Amendment was written to prevent.

      So it’ll be nice to have your voice on our side, objecting to the breaking down of the separation of church and state. Now that you know the facts, you’ll do that, right?

      Or was your post just a semi-literate expression of anti-Catholic bigotry? It did sound like that, but I’d hate to think you were enlisting the Constitution for such an ugly cause…

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    • snowhawkComment by snowhawk
      February 8, 2012 @ 2:38 pm

       
      Phiwynk: I Truly wish I had the time to explain what the intent of Jefferson was regarding the 1st amendment but I can guaranty you that, given the Churches role in Europe at the time, that the 1st amendment is meant to protect the people no the Church.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 8, 2012 @ 3:31 pm

      note to snowhawk you still don’t know history. The Catholic church had no control over the Church of England. The Church of England was established because the Catholic church would not allow the King to divorce.
       The constitution was written in common English. Meaning that it means what it says. No legalese used. It has been twisted by people like you and liberal judges. There is no law that says separation of church and state. If you think there is then start looking because a wild goose hunt is still a wild goose hunt. the Constitution was written to put boundaries on the federal government not the states themselves. the congress is part of the federal government not an entity of the states. This is what is said in the constitution:  “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
       The only thing about separation written was a letter by Thomas Jefferson when he was president. All states at the time could and most had a state religion.
       They did not find the missing link. They just found another fossil. In my fifty-three years they had made claims they found the missing link. They have been wrong every time. My major was Anthropology. So I think I know a little more about the subject than the average person. The first primates didn’t appear until 60,000,000 years. The link from primate to human has never been found. The first hominess appeared 5,300,000. I don’t know what fossils you are talking about, because your number predates all primates. therefore they can not be the missing link.
       As for anchor babies. Blaming the Catholic is absurd. They did not tell people to break the laws of this Nation. In fact they teach people that they should obey the laws of man and God.
       IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! !

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  27. fortyshooterComment by fortyshooter
    February 8, 2012 @ 1:06 pm

    This mandate does not differ from RomneyCare (2005) wherein Catholic Churches were forced to provide abortion services in the State of Massachusetts. 

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    • snowhawkComment by snowhawk
      February 8, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

       
      No one is being forced here. Quite simply employers in the US have to adhere to the rules and laws as set forth by Congress for all employers. No one (LET ME REPETE THAT NO ONE) is forcing the Catholic Church to be an employer. It seems that the Catholic Church has in their constant search for endless wealth and power interred the US world of secular business and now expects to be given spacial exemptions from the law. Would it not be nice if we all because of our individual beliefs could get spacial exemptions. Then we could all do as we damned well pleased as the Founders intended.

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    • philwynkComment by philwynk
      February 8, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

      I have to wonder what snowhawk is going to say when the government forbids Catholic hospitals from closing in order to avoid having to violate their consciences and perform abortions.

      They are going to object to them closing, you know, right, snowhawk? And demonize them for being “against the poor” and such like?

      If you genuinely believe that what the government is doing to Catholics is not precisely what was forbidden by the 1st Amendment, then you are incompetent to interpret that document, and should stay the hell out of discussions of it by sentient adults.

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 8, 2012 @ 2:35 pm

      “Would it not be nice if we all because of our individual beliefs could get spacial exemptions”

      hahahahaha

      You mean like when we had private insurance?

      hahahaha

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 8, 2012 @ 2:36 pm

      RomneyCare

      http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/problem-romneycare

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  28. donaComment by dona
    February 8, 2012 @ 1:22 pm

    The Catholic Church has been the help of the poor and downtrodden for over two-thousand years. Historically speaked they provided the first universities and hospitals and orphanges, not just here in our fairly young nation, but throughout Europe.  The charitable institutions of the Catholic Church are second to none.

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  29. philwynkComment by philwynk
    February 8, 2012 @ 1:27 pm

    I dearly loved this:

    According to Starnes, “the Secretary of the Army feared the letter could be viewed as a call for civil disobedience.”

    Well, yes, to be sure. It was exactly that. And nothing could be more American.

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  30. jeffpatComment by jeffpat
    February 9, 2012 @ 2:37 am

    This is in response to the comment by onewildman to my post Feb 8 @ 10:51

    to one wildman:

    Actually, I agree with you that the cost of an abortion in most cases is affordable. My comment about poor women being denied access to abortion was a response to Jota who said that if a woman can’t afford an abortion, then she shouldn’t get one. But I will have to say that although, the costs are not nearly as high as they were before Roe vs Wade, new laws in some states are making it much more expensive. States that require sonograms, counseling, and waiting periods – all at the patient’s expense – has definitely pushed the costs out of the range of some of the poor. Especially the counseling and waiting requirements, where the patient is forced to go out of town to meet her appointments. Hotel costs, transportation fees, and lost time from work can be prohibitive for some people. The states that have fetal heartbeat laws have really jacked up the costs. Most women don’t even know they’re pregnant before there’s a heartbeat. That means going out of state to get an abortion.
    I’m going to have to disagree with you about the poor not being very poor as evidenced by the number of appliances they have. How many TVs did Rockefeller have in 1930? None. And yet he was the richest man in the world. I hear King Henry the Eighth didn’t even have running water. Poor king. Today, you can get a TV for a hundred dollars and a car for a thousand. I don’t know where you live, but in Phoenix, Arizona where I’m from, raising a family and working a menial job requires a car. It’s not a luxury, and a 20 year old clunker is certainly no measure of wealth. If you’re going to compare the wealth of today to that of the past, you have to measure only the things that matter: healthcare, food, housing and savings. You talk about people paying their air conditioning bill as a sign of affluence?  How many people do you think die annually of heat exposure in Phoenix? Having said all that, I will give you credit for mentioning healthcare, food, and housing. And I haven’t done it yet, but I will check that link you sent me showing that things are rosier than what I read in the popular media. What I read says that things are not so good. That unemployment is high, and even much higher than what the Obama administration claims it is. I read that the number of homeless is increasing, that real wages are decreasing, and that the wealth gap between rich and poor is increasing. It will be refreshing to read something that reports that things have gotten better under this administration.
     

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 9, 2012 @ 9:08 am

      jeffpat. I personally know people on welfare with flat screens and surround sound systems. They have cars less than ten years. I live in the welfare state of California. As for Rockefeller. Why would you buy a TV when there was virtually nothing being broadcast. Unless you liked the image of a Felix the cat doll, rotating on a turntable being broadcast for 2 hours every day for several years, as new technology was being tested by the engineers. The other thing the first commercially made TV sets were made with 3″ screens and cost about $125. If you take inflation into consideration today that would cost about $1900 Would you to spend this on a novelty. Less than 1,000 were sold from 1930 to 1933.TV wasn’t popular until after WWII and still there was very little to watch.
       
       As for the unemployment numbers. You can thank Clinton for that. He ordered that when the numbers were recorded that those who had used their benefits up would no longer be considered in unemployment. They only count people that are drawing unemployment checks. The real number is about 22% for the unemployed and I don’t have the number of people who underemployed. meaning had to take a part time job or take temporary work through companies like Manpower or Kelly Girls.
       As for air conditioning. There was none in 1930 or all the years before that. Using it when it is only 80 or 90 degrees is a luxury. I know very well about how hot it get in AZ and will agree that if you live there you will need AC at sometime. Not all people are the same when it comes to heat tolerance. I will routinely ride my bike in 100+degrees temps.
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! !

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 9, 2012 @ 9:13 am

      “My comment about poor women being denied access to abortion was a response to Jota who said that if a woman can’t afford an abortion, then she shouldn’t get one.”

      Which is a bogus argument

      It is like saying we need to feel sorry for poor folks who cannot afford matches to burn their house down

      Ah yes, but it is so unfair because rich folk can buy their own matches

      Of course, what is utterly and completely ridiculous, it is not the cost of the matches but the destroying of one’s life which is truly expensive

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  31. jeffpatComment by jeffpat
    February 9, 2012 @ 9:26 am

    To Onewildman:

    Thanks for the history lesson, but I only mentioned that Rockerfeller had no TVs just to make the point that owning a TV in 1960 meant something entirely different than it does today. Maybe I should go on welfare like your friend. I’ve always wanted a surround sound system. Enjoy your ride.

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 9, 2012 @ 9:44 am

      jeffpat just for the record I drive a 1989 Ford and I too wish I had a surround sound and flat screen TV.
       
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! !

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    • Jota_Comment by Jota_
      February 9, 2012 @ 10:43 am

      And the real point

      http://www.costopedia.com/costs/contraceptive-treatments-surgeries/
      On average contraceptives cost about $30/month $350/year

      http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty
      63.7% of the poor have cable or satellite TV average cost about $50/month $600/year

      Pleading poverty as an excuse as to why everyone needs to pay for someone elses contraceptive use is ludicrous

      It really calls into question how individuals who are not mature adults are having sex in the first place or even allowed to vote

      And then to force another against their conscious to pay for it all is unconscionable

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    • onewildmanComment by onewildman
      February 9, 2012 @ 11:14 am

      Jota_ You can find condoms at the .99 cent store and it will cost $4.00 to $5.00 a month. Also it is far less expensive to pay for the Pill than the cost to raise a child. Abstinence cost nothing.
       
      IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! ! !

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