Last Updated:December 18 @ 06:02 pm

Ryan says prayer in public schools should be a state decision

By Steve Peoples

PROVO, Utah (AP) - Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan said Wednesday that he supports prayer in public schools.

The Wisconsin congressman addressed the issue during a brief stop inside a Republican volunteer center in Provo, Utah. He was in the state to attend a fundraiser.

Asked by a volunteer whether he supported giving states the right to allow "prayer or pledge" in schools, Ryan said he did.

"That's a constitutional issue of the states, moral responsibility of parents, education," Ryan continued.

"Exactly, so I am hoping to try and push that," said the volunteer, 40-year-old Jenny Free, ofHighland, Utah, a mother of nine.

"You know in Utah, I would think you would have a pretty good chance," Ryan responded.

The remarks are generally in line with GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who said last year that he supports prayer in public schools as well. Romney told an Iowa audience that there should be more prayer in schools and more "religious ornamentation" in the public square.

"I'm not looking for teachers to have prayer every day in the classroom, but I do think at special ceremonies — graduation, football games and the like, that calling on our creator is a good idea," he told CNN.

In the early 1960s, the Supreme Court struck down government-mandated prayer and Bible study inpublic schools. Voluntary, individual student prayers are still legal in public schools.

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97 Comments

  1. Allen SComment by Allen S
    September 6, 2012 @ 3:08 pm

    As much as I like Paul Ryan as VP I do not believe he is right. I grew up with prayer and Bible reading in some of my classrooms. Some of my teachers were Jews and of course did not have us pray nor did they read the Bible but in all first periods we did say the pledge to our flag. I believe that if M. O’Hare (sp?), the atheist who accomplished taking prayer and the Bible out of our schools, had not succeeded then we would still have prayer and Bible reading in our public schools and it would not be a problem. However, in today’s world, how many teachers would know how to pray or even want to read the Bible? The problem is that too many would want to bring in “their” religions and books that Bible believing Christians oppose. This could be confusing to the students. So until We the People who are believers in Jesus Christ turn back to God and do things His way our Nation will continue to go the route it is taking now. In the meantime, parents are still responsible for teaching their children what they want them to know about God’s Word and take them to their church. We can’t leave it up to the schools to teach what we should be teaching at home and in our churches.

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    • MorganComment by Morgan
      September 6, 2012 @ 6:55 pm

      Frankly, I don’t want a teacher praying in the class room. I think it should be an individual student right. With all the different religions out there, I would just as soon have my child be able to pray on their own without a teacher getting involved.

      Kids should also be able to have religious plays or programs at Easter and Christmas without the government or some atheist claiming that it’s a violation of the 1st amendment.

      And if kids want to wear religious symbols on their shirts, or crosses around their necks, they should be allowed to do so with out the school getting all up in arms about it.

      The Constitution guarantees all of us the right to worship as we please.

      Years ago, I can’t remember under which president, they passed the equal access law that gave students the right to hold meetings on school property, and that includes a Youth For Christ club or any other religious club. http://www.religioustolerance.org/equ_acce.htm

      That is the way it should be.

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    • Mort_fComment by Mort_f
      September 6, 2012 @ 7:45 pm

      To Morgan,

      Totally agree with what you wrote.

      Many years ago, the elementary school principal drafted me to run the PTA at his school, a way to quiet my complaints.

      I then proposed, and he accepted, a ‘Winter’ program. It was fashioned around Walt Disney’s ‘Its a Small World’. Each class prepared decorations, songs and foods, with each class selecting a different country and culture. That became their ‘Christmas’ program for several years. SPS,Self praise stinks, but I was proud of what we accomplished. Would the Supreme Court have approved? I do not know, nor did I care.

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    • cdrcodyComment by cdrcody
      September 6, 2012 @ 8:39 pm

      Ryan is right. The question about prayer in schools is left to all entities from the state down to the individual. The federal government is Constitutionaly barred from getting involved.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 6, 2012 @ 8:59 pm

      I am simply amazed!
      Why would anyone want to force children to pray in school? Is that about freedom? NO! Is it about an agenda – yes!
      Since children can pray or do whatever they want during the moment of silence, why push any religion in school?
      How about pushing the Muslim religion by the state – then all the kids and can get out their rugs and pray to Allah 5 times a day. How stupid is that?
      Why do you think your God is better than the other religion’s God? This is the problem that history has fought wars over and millions of people died for. It is the same mentality that one nationality is better than another – the Nazi’s felt they were the superior race. The Japanese thought they were the superior race. Skin heads think they are the superior race. It is amazing to me that a VP candidate would make such a stupid statement – separation between church and state is a federal requirement and upheld by the supreme court. I have to vote republican because of what the crazy crooks on the other side are doing to our country, but it is painful to vote for dummies that make statements contrary to our constitution. This is what drives people to the democrats. Don’t be hypocrites – jumping up and down about the constitution and then going against it. I want to feel good about voting for people that are honest, following the law, and not discriminating.

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    • MorganComment by Morgan
      September 6, 2012 @ 11:39 pm

      Thanks Mort_f. I think you did the right thing and it worked.

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 6, 2012 @ 11:47 pm

      Mort That was on target ! Good job

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    • chirodoc81Comment by chirodoc81
      September 7, 2012 @ 3:17 pm

      The 1962 decision by the Supreme Court that ban prayer in schools and government activities nullified the 1st Amendment to the constitution. The 1st Amendment stated that there was freedom of religion and the government could not pass laws restricting the exercise of religion. The Supreme Court did make a law restricting religion and since the there has been more restirctions put in place. It is almost to the point Christians and Jews cannot practice their faith in public but if you are a muslim the school put pray rooms in the schools and no one protest this action. Schools are teaching the muslim religion in schools and there are not protest. WHY?
      We need to have a review of the 1962 Supreme Court ruling on the O’Hare Case.

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 8, 2012 @ 11:17 am

      buster2012: You are an example of those who protest before they engage their brains. Nobody is saying children would be forced to pray… to ANYONE. Nobody is saying children will be forced to pray to a Christian God.

      We are saying that denying those who want to pray, their RIGHT to pray, is just as much a violation of the Constitution as forcing someone to pray.

      A moment of silence during which those who want to pray to God, Allah, Buddah, or anyone else may do so, while those who wish not to pray, get to sit by and do anything quietly.

      Nobody is forced to do anything but offer respect that goes both ways. How hard is that? How can respect on a two way street be wrong? It isn’t. There are just those who will not admit their own agenda of totally removing Christianity from everything.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 12:35 pm

      to VeeDub –
      So, you feel that praying is being denied to those in school and that I should engage my brain before protesting. LOL
      What do you think kids can do during the moment of silence? Did anyone ever say you can not pray during the moment of silence? Maybe there should be 5 moments of silence each day so some kids can roll out their prayer rugs and thank Allah for all the infidels in his class.
      Never have I ever heard or read about anyone being told they could not pray. You can put your hands together right now no matter where you are or you can get down and put your butt in the air as long as you don’t disrupt others rights. It is incredible to me how many people believe the propaganda out there. Keep religion in the church not in schools – what is so bad about that. Unloading your responsibility on a fantasy God by praying might work for you, but I choose to be self-responsible and not blame God for letting me down or thanking (him, her, it, black, white, or whatever people think it is that resembles them) God for something I achieved through hard work and effort. I’m thankful for many things, but not to a fake man made God.
      IT is important to support the Constitution, freedom, Rights, and integrity for all – this is being a republican – not being a religious extremest and pushing your religious views on others.

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    • cxComment by genesal
      September 8, 2012 @ 6:39 pm

      Godless and Brainless & Clueless, wow. That sure must have been the wrong line. We’ll all pray for you

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    • thecitizenComment by thecitizen
      September 9, 2012 @ 2:12 am

      @ Veedub: “There are just those who will not admit their own agenda of totally removing Christianity from everything.”

      Precisely and exactly what’s happening. Remove – Christianity -
      from EVERYTHING, from public schools to the public square, from public logos to private property displays because they can be seen … from public roads or access.

      A significant tool for that removal is the – ACLU. The ACLU blow into small/tiny town America with their deep, deep pockets and file lawsuits to remove Christian symbols embedded in that small/tiny town’s culture for generations and generations.

      To legally fight the deep pockets of the ACLU, small/tiny town would bust their public treasury so they acquiesce. And even then, sometimes just removing the Christian symbols is enough to bust the public treasury.

      Meanwhile, if they fight and lose, which is quite likely due to precedent, ANOTHER precedent is set, which just gives the ACLU more leverage to bully their next … Christian victim.

      Meanwhile Muslims, Atheist, Sun, Rain, Devil, etc., etc., etc., worshipers – are given a free pass!

      Ridiculous. Sad.

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 9, 2012 @ 7:02 am

      To thecitizen,

      You are correct. The Anti American ACLU will travel around until they find a new target in Littletown USA and out spend them. I say the only way to beat their deep pockets is to unite and ignore. The local police need to be on board as well and force the final order from the Federal Judge to be enforced by use of Armed Troops. Some School administrators,mayors and police chiefs etc. should be prepared to go to jail and an isolated case won’t accomplish much. We need to organize and rebel. Smalltowns USA need to organize before this happens and have a plan.

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 9, 2012 @ 9:50 am

      buster2012; I’ll stand by what I wrote about you and Christianity. But let me help you. Go to “google.com” type in “school prayer denied”. Then take a look at the thousands of hits you’ll get on it and every other search engine.

      You don’t think prayer is denied in schools across the U.S.? If so, YOU are not paying attention, or are simply denying the facts!

      “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” ~ Joseph Goebbels

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    • cxComment by genesal
      September 9, 2012 @ 11:13 am

      colt1911
      Smalltowns USA need to organize before this happens and have a plan.

      How about an insurance fund, kind of like malpractice insurance but not for a wrong doing but so all can join and protect each other. Deep pockets, so to speak, for those who might get extorted from the (A Communistic Litigation Unit). Might work.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 9, 2012 @ 10:27 pm

      For VeeDub –
      If religious freedom is important to you then stop trying to take it away from others that don’t believe like you do. Many google hits for “school prayer denied” are not facts to support your cause. Actually, on the first page of the search was this website that quotes the law and common sense about prayer in schools – http://rac.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=2329&pge_prg_id=11336&pge_id=2450

      If you can’t agree with this website then you are simply a selfish person with no respect for others rights.

      Give it up! You are wrong! You lack integrity!

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 10, 2012 @ 11:07 am

      The problem isn’t that Christians want to “force” anyone to pray, although that’s always their first argument. It isn’t that Christians want to deny the rights of others or take away their right to pray in any manner or to not pray if it suits them.

      The problem is that the way this Nation was founded, the principles it stood for and the true meaning of “freedom” were destroyed when Lincoln destroyed the Republic. And each year the professional politicians (mostly lawyers) have played tricks with words and the legislation they push in order to enrich themselves and ensure their re-election, further destroying any common sense understanding of what the U.S. Constitution is all about and what it really meant.

      Is there really an intelligent person out there that believes our Founding Fathers threw in “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech”, on just a whim?

      Why is that those who demand “equal” rights for “all”, are the first ones to jump up and down and demand that Christians give up their rights? Does it make you feel guilty to see someone pray? Don’t Christians have the right to free speech too? Why do they always ignore “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” in their feeble arguments?

      http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/09/since-when-are-we-the-united-state-of-america/

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  2. sammaelComment by sammael
    September 6, 2012 @ 3:30 pm

    Hmmmm. I wrote a paper on this some time ago in college. Unless it’s a moment of silence, who will they pray to?

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 7, 2012 @ 11:15 pm

      I was in high school during the 60′s.
      We had a moment of silence in home room. I never prayed because asking a fantasy God for things is silly. Be self-responsible and do the right thing – you don’t need religion for those teachings – you get them at home. We all know the difference between right and wrong.
      I cannot remember any teacher teaching religious stuff in any of the public schools I attended in NY – Nassau County.
      I believe in a God, but not the man made God of organized religion created by man to control other men. And I’m not a democrat, I’m a republican and I don’t have to believe every right wing ideal to be republican and how many democrats are religious and go to church! Praise the lord!
      “under God” in our pledge was fine with me, but if I had anyone pushing Jesus, Mohammad, Allah, or any other man made idea I would have revolted. People that want to believe in the fantasies handed down through the ages even though there is proof it is false as well as common sense showing it is false then go at it in a private setting which you have the right to do. Keep public places free of religious stuff – no prayer rugs, etc.

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 9, 2012 @ 9:57 am

      Buster2012 has made it easy for me to empty my GOPUSA mailbox. When I see the post is by him/her I no longer waste my time reading it. Just like reading something from his/her liberal/socialist/progressive/democrat “president”

      Delete, delete, delete, repeat.

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  3. lwessonComment by lwesson
    September 6, 2012 @ 3:56 pm

    A long time ago, in a Galaxy Far Away, I taught in public schools. The memory is not a pleasant one. For the most part, amoral, Leftists predominated in the ranks of teachers, administrators, and college education instructors. Bottom line? The LACK of religious identity is most troublesome.

    Parents asking for advice, well, my first pick was private religious schools… . I know, what heresy!

    The Founders talked extensively that for their experiment in a representative republic to work, The People HAD to be a MORAL, RELIGIOUS People. Period! In their general context of religion, that meant Christian. Not Hindu, Shinto…, and certainly NOT Muslim. Odious O’Hares would have been sent packing.

    Another point, The Constitution does NOT protect your right FROM religion. There is NO separation of Church & State. The Founders simply did not want the National Government to establish an official religion, like, well, The Church of England. Perhaps they were wrong, as I don’t think that they could remotely imagine the utter dissemble of Christ, God, from The Republic that they created. No, they were likely, wrong.

    The Founders were also most adamant on having a like, similar people. Why? So that there would not be a disharmonious Calliope of fractiousness people. Even then, there were fractures of people and culture that ultimately, in some 85 years, led to a horrific war killing upwards of 750,000 and more… . Imagine the chaos now.

    So here we have it. Something that is so fundamental to OUR society, prayer, religion being tossed aside. Any religious anything, found offensive, verboten. Santa Claus at a school? Oh the crime of it all!

    The Communist agenda was very clear that religion must be polluted, eliminated, marginalized. They must be thrilled. Just one of a number of items on their list checked off.

    The Free and Independent States have every right to allow prayer in schools. Paul Ryan is right!

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 6, 2012 @ 9:33 pm

      LOL
      Your judgements support your religion, not logic and common sense.
      I agree that the founders did not want an official religion like the “Church of England”. To say that they knew nothing about other religions is nonsense. Thomas Jefferson knew of other religions. If you learn about history and the education of our founders you might decide that the separation of church and state was to prevent having a Pope running the government as was common in England’s history. It is the same story, you people cry that Santa is found to be offensive to others and that is why it is verboten. That is nonsense. I grew up with Christmas every year and some Jews I knew even celebrated Christmas. Please give up the persecution complex and realize that you are not the best and only religion (a reason for war just like the Muslims think you are an infidel) and that no religion should put it’s stuff in public areas. I would hate to see prayer rugs all over times square or Jewish or Muslim symbols all over – or Greek letters. Keep religion at home and in the church or mosque and off public places or they will look like a circus when every religion has the same right to put stuff there.

      And to sum up your last statement – the federal and state governments ALLOW prayer in schools, but they can’t MANDATE it or force it on kids in schools. The solution for you is to teach your kids to pray in school every chance they get on their own and let them take religious classes in college if they want to.

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    • lwessonComment by lwesson
      September 7, 2012 @ 1:10 pm

      LOL!

      Buster2012, just whose comment did you read? Certainly not mine.

      I did enjoy your immediate attack on the the writer, per his or her, inability to use logic & common sense, implying that only you are on some kind of fine high ground and the writer, an idiot of no consequence. Usually, this is the way that Leftists approach any opponent, any opposition. Humm?

      I guess you read someone who said that Jefferson & Co. did not know anything about other religions. Far from that, they knew quite a bit.

      Henry VIII, long long ago, ended the Pope’s rule over England, so time shifting is going on. Are you a time traveler? Some individual New England States, did establish a State Religion. Interesting, as there is NO mention what so ever, of your hallucinogenic, conjured up, “Separation of Church & State” in the Constitution. NONE! But repeat it enough and maybe some magic will happen…, another slight of hand in burying the truth. Repeat the lie and it becomes the truth.

      “You People”, ah, me and my homeys here! “You People”, kind of screams where you throw your screed from. Are you Joe Biden? Don’t you have something else to be doing?

      Religious relativism comes next, another useful chapter from a crimson colored handbook? Cultural relativism is next. Its a
      Small World, Disney song next… . (The ride broke down, and I heard this for over an hour. I confessed in sobbing tears, to anything and everything.)

      And then, kind of in summation, to what ever you were reading, I am not sure which governmental bodies in the world that you are referring to in ALLOWING prayer in schools? Saudi Arabia?

      By the time I left the chalk dusted hallways, just before the introduction of on campus police forces, metal detectors…, the battle was on, to strike Christ from prayers at events, strike prayers period, using the courts, threats of lawsuits.

      To go about teaching about the faith of The Founders, their comments, the National construct per religion, got you the in the office, explaining yourself… . It had come to a point that to upset, to offend, was starting to rule, control the day, command over everyone. Kind of like going to say, a football game, and being offended that football was being played because you are a bat mitten fan.

      The Final Solution, College classes? Shield the kiddies till college? Curious. Homosexuality can be paraded out gayly as you please in grade school… but studies about Christianity, well, wait till college. Got to go hang with, ah, MY PEOPLE now. Cheers!

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 10, 2012 @ 6:29 am

      lwesson; You wrote; “Buster2012, just whose comment did you read? Certainly not mine.”

      That is obvious. He’s responded that I’ve written things I haven’t also. There are lots of his comments where he inserts what he thinks he reads, instead of what was actually written.

      I wonder if his doctor knows he’s off his meds again.

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    • lwessonComment by lwesson
      September 10, 2012 @ 8:52 am

      Hey VeeDub,

      This person reads a bit like the other Trolls that wander about, trying to direct us, set the agenda, or provoke as in sewers of discord like a Loki, Norse God of mischief. The writer spiked the ball with me in the “You People” comment, but overall, has all of the general tendencies of a Leftist in writing. One item, always assault the intelligence, the ability to apply logic… . This seems to be classic approved method.

      The other thing to note, if you are good, they try to take you out right away. The Soviets would come in and murder Priests, leaders right off. Of course, any authoritarian, any police action, kind of follows this rule of thumb. My friends in 1984 England have gone pretty much underground.

      Perhaps these people are in a political course and the Prof. has them dabbling here and there as many of us do not want to think that we are being played. I chuckle when I read, “I am a Conservative, Republican, Constitutional Conservative…” plastered on as to provide legitimacy. “Humm, the label says Cadillac but it looks like a used stinking YUGO.”

      This, Trend of Trolls is getting worse as Team Obama tanks deeper. As Michael Savage goes on about how Liberalism is a mental disorder, look forward to bizarre, over the top screams and ugliness. A great deal of meds are in order…! Best Regards!

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  4. pwpmmpComment by pwpmmp
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:12 pm

    I am a devout Christian and I am not ashamed of it, however I don’t support organized prayer in schools because there is no way to control the content of said prayers. A moment of silence is fine for all to pray or not as they desire, but I can see the way that organized prayer in schools could be used to promote any and everything. We could have NOW teachers praying to their vaginas for all we know. I want my children to get their religious training (and their sex ed) in their own home and church.

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 6, 2012 @ 4:51 pm

      We were a stronger country when God was in our schools. Many of the young, enlightened, trendy, free thinking parents of today are victims of a Godless family and Godless School system.

      Let us bring God and the paddle back into our schools and just maybe we won’t need 6 cops at every campus.

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    • cxComment by genesal
      September 6, 2012 @ 7:33 pm

      Amen Mr45!

      I think people on both sides have been brain washed some more than others.

      You can ‘pledge’ allegiance to a flag but not God? What’s up with that?

      The whole school system needs to go to vouchers so you can have your child taught where and what you may, morally speaking.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 12:46 pm

      I agree with your comment – keep the religion in church and not in the schools. people can pray 24 hours a day for all I care just don’t force others to be involved in it.

      Christians fearful about losing believers should not be trying to force their religion into the schools because the reason is obvious and self serving. People lose respect for your intelligence doing this. Instead, focus on what your religion teaches and practice that and possibly non believers will see some value in it and join you. Brain washing children works to some extent, but it turned me off totally when I was a kid. Stop pushing your religion on others – they will come to it if it is worth anything to them.

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  5. Frank MarksComment by Frank Marks
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:21 pm

    anything that diminishes the federal government’s grip on our education system has got to be an improvement.. just eliminating federal dept of education and gilving total power to the individual states will remove so many problems that come from nationalizing education unions. public workers, be them teachers or administrators, do not need federal level power. that removes justice as it removes any variation variation that each state deciding what is good for it’s citzens. provides a greater justice for all.. and puts responsibilty at a level closer to the student.

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 6, 2012 @ 7:21 pm

      AMEN Frank ! The truth is always so simple

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  6. David PeacockComment by David Peacock
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:27 pm

    A TRULY “small government” federalism fan; give us the freedom to make OUR DECISIONS;; GOOD MAN

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  7. VeeDubComment by VeeDub
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:33 pm

    UH HELLO! It is a State decision! The Constitution specifically prohibits Congress from making any law about Religion. The Constitution specifically states that ALL legislative power rests in Congress. Therefore the Supreme Court and the President have NO Constitutional authority to make ANY law.

    Ipso Facto; ONLY the States have the RIGHT to make any decisions regarding Religion. It’s in the Constitution STOOOOPID!

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 9, 2012 @ 11:13 pm

      veeDub,

      My comment about being a closet Liberal was meant for Buster not you. OOOPS! This gets confusing

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 10, 2012 @ 8:11 am

      I agree. You’d think they could make some system improvements. But It’s obvious Buster is not a “closet” liberal. He has posted way too many liberal opinions to even try and conceal or deny what he is.

      Buster is also confusing. In one post he tells us that Religion should be kept in Churches and in another he’s wailing about denying religion in school. And I quote..

      “I agree with your comment – keep the religion in church and not in the schools”.

      “If religious freedom is important to you then stop trying to take it away from others”.

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  8. Repossess AmericaComment by Repossess America
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:38 pm

    Prayer in schools shoud be the peoples decision. Let the students or the parents make that decision. I do not need the State telling me if my kids can pray in school or not. It’s none of their business. They have way too much power as it is. Or that is, they think they do.

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    • VeeDubComment by VeeDub
      September 6, 2012 @ 4:44 pm

      By “state” I do mean “the people”. As the Constitution is written the people get to vote on an issue. Once passed by the majority of the citizens of that state it then becomes State law. A state law the Supreme Court CANNOT declare unconstitutional.

      When written our founders wrote the Constituion in such a manner to ensure the will of the people is enforced. If someone does not like the laws of their state, they are free to move to another with laws they do like.

      Having said that. The safest/smartest law they could put to a vote would be to allow each person/student to worship as they please, and those who wish not to worship are free to do something else. Nobody’s rights are violated that way.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 12:57 pm

      VeeDub – great idea! worship as they please – isn’t that what a moment of silence is for?

      You can’t put to vote something that would be discriminatory and have it valid even if the majority was to vote for it. Any state law can be deemed unconstitutional if it discriminates.

      Imagine a state with all white people passing a law that does not allow blacks or visa versa. LOL
      This is what you are asking for – a Christian state that would discriminate against all other religions – what a nice Christian value! I think I’ll go puke now. Better go confess your sins before the lightning hits you.

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  9. colt1911Comment by colt1911
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:42 pm

    All laws that don’t involve the printing of money, protecting the shores or delivering the mail should be States’ Rights issues. NO EXCEPTIONS. The Federal Government was NEVER supposed to become this powerful. We fought one war over this and the next one might turn out a little differently.

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  10. Mort_fComment by Mort_f
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:43 pm

    A rather dangerous road to travel. While a moment of silence for private prayer is definitely acceptable to nearly all, probably even to atheists, and possbly objectionable to muslims unless done at their ‘scheduled’ times, it is fully in keeping with Supreme Court decisions on separation of church and state. A principle that protects minorities from overbearing actions of majorities.

    For having public prayers in public institutions immediately raises the question as to what form that prayer should be. Please do not require that my children should have a rosary, or pray to Jesus Christ. Nor, in the spirit of ecumenicalism, should we take turns, and have your children pray to G_D, wearing a yamulkah or a prayer shawl. And sorry, not even in the spirit of tolerance, would I countenance Allah Akhbar while pronating on a rug. Is Zeus still available?

    The Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution, are masterful documents. They sidestep the issue, but do refer to our Creator. And that should be sufficient. In the Declaration, there is one reference, but that is to ‘Nature’s God’, not to any other. Nowhere in the Constitution will you even find that.

    I will suggest a ‘prayer’ that would hopefully be meaningful to all, and yet not denying our roots. Recite the Declaration of Independence as your prayer substitute. For the lower grades, the Preamble to the Constitution should be a satisfactory substitute, it is much shorter.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 7:19 pm

      Why suggest any prayer at all?
      Most of the religious kids don’t want to pray anyway. Most praying is ritual and out of fear anyway.
      There is no prayer that would be meaningful to all. There is too much dysfunction out there for everyone to agree on anything.
      No prayer in school or public places is the only fair and legal solution.

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  11. adrianpaulComment by adrianpaul
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:49 pm

    What negative connotation could there possibly be to the teacher asking the class to bow their heads while she asks for divine guidance in what she’s about to teach, for receptive and attentive minds, for good health and a safe day, etc.?!? No scolding of the nonbelievers – just expected to be quiet – even the muslims could be allowed to bring a small magic carpet.

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    • Mort_fComment by Mort_f
      September 6, 2012 @ 5:08 pm

      What would you think if the teacher stated: ‘We will now have a moment of quiet while I pray for guidance. You are free to silently pray yourselves.’. Probably better if the teacher created a preambleby him/herself. Standardization is highly over-rated.

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    • catmanComment by catman
      September 6, 2012 @ 6:16 pm

      “What negative connotation could there possibly be to the teacher asking the class to bow their heads while she asks for divine guidance in what she’s about to teach”

      I there were any “divine intervention” in our schools, most teachers would be struck by lightening for what they are about to teach!

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 6, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

      Excellent idea !

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 6:57 pm

      catman – what is wrong with the teacher asking the class to all get on the floor and pray to Allah 5 times a day? So, your kid is Christian – on the floor anyway.

      what if the teacher is a Muslim – are you going to force her to recite a Prayer to Jesus with the class?

      What if she wants all the girls to wear veils in her class room out of respect.

      The first rule is freedom of religion for all. To that goal all religion must be removed from public institutions. Stop trying to force it others that don’t want it.

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  12. doskiComment by doski
    September 6, 2012 @ 4:54 pm

    The whole point of freedom and the free market is to allow for the greatest amount of experimentation within our Union known as the United States of America. With its diversity, the best solutions are discovered for even the most complex of issues in the shortest timeframe assuming “objective” comparisons are allowed. That assumption becomes a fallicy when Govt, intervention runs amuck.
    With that said, the single greatest solution for getting Education and America as a whole back on track, resides in the seperation of all Govt., Federal, State, and County from regulating Education and Business. Allow Law Enforcement and the Courts to deal with violations of Basic Laws not the conveluted mess derived by Congress. Allowing each community to deal with their unique problems enables solutions unique to each community. The residents of those communities are thereby enabled to mold their communities as they see fit with the success or failure of each contributing to the eventual education of all. Fear of failure did not stop Thomas Edison from inventing the light bulb, neither will the failure of one school system model stop the successful modelling of another, which can then be reproduced by other communities seeking to provide their children with the best available Education and with it Opportunity for success.
    That is what motivated our parents and theirs to move to and support communities where their heirs stood the greatest opportunities. Central Govt,(Federal) intervention has destroyed that model by “Simulating” equality through Standardizing, a.k.a. promoting the lowest common denominator (Forced Failure).

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 7:00 pm

      you said”
      resides in the seperation of all Govt., Federal, State, and County from regulating Education and Business.”

      Wow! you can’t be serious.
      Get rid of special interests and lobbying, but without regulation we would have chaos.

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  13. battleground51Comment by battleground51
    September 6, 2012 @ 5:34 pm

    It’s hopeless. Leftist atheists took over our educational system years ago and the first thing to go was all display of Christianity. Their next big goal is to normalize homosexuality, in the schools, and teach our children that it’s a peachy lifestyle.

    The demise of America has been in direct proportion to the rise and influence of the Democrat leftists and their influence on our culture.

    Obama and his ‘crats are but the latest chapter of “The Fall of America”.

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    • lwessonComment by lwesson
      September 7, 2012 @ 1:43 pm

      The post war LEFT looked at our education system and saw a golden opportunity to infiltrate and generally control it. In my class of 100 student teachers, I think I was the ONLY Conservative. If there were others, they, as Clint Eastwood said, did not “hotdog it around”.

      Just forty of us graduated in student teaching. I will not completely share what my Education Instructor said of me, in our German Beer Hall celebration, as she mentioned something about each and every one of us. Suffice to say, at W she was completely blitzed, and referred to me as someone with a paint mustache! Ahhh. Feel the comradely love, compassion, inclusion, diversity… .

      One of my very Conservative College Profs. admitted to me, that the LEFT had hijacked higher education, so that it could top down, control the lower levels. They made his life a living Hell. He eventually got out. The Fall of America, is upon us, Rome, here we come! Save some vino.

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  14. sunshine52Comment by sunshine52
    September 6, 2012 @ 6:28 pm

    When I was in public grammar school, the students and faculty held an “assembly” in the auditorium every Friday. Everyone recited The Pledge of Allegiance with their hand over their heart. A student would then read a Psalm from the Holy Bible. No one objected to either of these. The Book of Psalms is the largest and perhaps most widely used book in the Bible. It explores the full range of human experience in a very personal and practical way. The tremendous breadth of subject matter in the Psalms includes diverse topics, such as jubilation, war, peace, worship, judgment, praise and lament. The Psalms served as the temple hymnbook and devotional guide for the Jewish people.
    When I look back on those days in public school, I don’t recall teachers sitting in the hallways acting as “monitors”, or “special police” patrolling the perimeters of the school. We rarely had a problem that required a disciplinary action. I look at the problems in our schools and in our society today, and wonder if they have anything to do with the removal of prayer and/or Bible reading all those years ago. I doubt if bringing that back at this point in time would be beneficial, but then again, I guess it wouldn’t hurt to try. I’d like to see my grandchildren grow up with the same values that I learned from both home and school. Maybe our Nation would not be in the predicament we are today. May God bless and guide us in this upcoming election.

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    • doskiComment by doski
      September 6, 2012 @ 6:47 pm

      The Beauty of God’s system is that each generation has the ability to overcome the errors of each preseeding one. The return to God’s Light is never more than a generation removed. Hope never ends, only our failure to promote hope and morality can remove them from OUR lives. As long as we instill them in our children their return is within reach. Never give up, never give in. The future is what you make of it.

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    • MorganComment by Morgan
      September 6, 2012 @ 7:13 pm

      When I was in high school back in the late 40′s and early 50′s we had a Youth for Christ club that met monthly and attendance was totally voluntary. We had two assembly halls, one small and one large and we could use the smaller one for our meetings. We would often invite local pastors to come and speak, and also other Christian youth leaders in the area.

      It was great. We had probably 100 kids attend regularly, but as I said, it was totally voluntary. Most of us Christian kids carried our Bibles.

      When we had assemblies, we had talent shows and many of us sang Christian songs. Our senior choir could sing sacred music etc.

      How things have changed. None of that is possible any more thanks to the ruling of SCOTUS. Now, if a kid wears a religious symbol, the school will tell him/her to remove it etc.

      And we have seen the direct result of taking God out of our society and our classrooms.

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    • Mort_fComment by Mort_f
      September 6, 2012 @ 7:33 pm

      Note that the Book of Psalms is the writings of King David. Now go to almost any Christian church, and the words ‘our Lord Jesus Christ’ has been added to each psalm. No way those words were in the original text. Now, which ‘Book of Psalms’ would you propose?

      In addition, the Holy Bible includes, in the Christian world, both some version of the New Testament, and some version of the Old Testament. The psalms are ONLY in the Old Testament. Now, which version do you propose? By the way, no person of the jewish faith considers the New Testament ‘holy’.

      This subject keeps coming up in respect to the Ten Commandments. Where there are 2 different versions. In the original version, the worship of Jesus Christ is a sin, as well as the trappings of religion that Christians hold dear. There are, in fact, 613 commandments in the Old Testament, but few are rigorous observers of them, and most are ignorant of many of them. In a sense, in a Judeo-Christian society, all 613 should apply, with additions from the New Testament. Show me the person who claims to be ‘holier than thou’.

      Fortunately Judeo-Christian implies a moral code that people of all faiths can live with in a peaceful, and just society. There are some, not all, other religions that espouse a similar morality.

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    • buster2012Comment by buster2012
      September 8, 2012 @ 7:09 pm

      How did the jews feel about the psalm recital?
      Were there any other religions there?
      To be fair, how about reciting something from the Koran?
      How about taking turns with the other 50 religions out there.
      I suppose you don’t want to do that because every religion teaches that theirs is the only real one. LOL
      There was just as much corruption and craziness back then, but now you hear about it in seconds – now is the information age.
      I bet you never heard about the kid that killed another kid in school with a shotgun in NY back in 1961. News was slow back then and covered up as well.
      Most religions teach good stuff, but you can learn that without religion as I did. Religion also teaches people how to be good followers and give their money to the leader as well as how to believe in fairy tales to be saved from burning in hell – the fear of God. Nuts!

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  15. joelinpdxComment by joelinpdx
    September 6, 2012 @ 6:39 pm

    The founders made the very first words of the Constitution “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…” and then in the tenth amendment said the states would not have the power to override the constitution.

    That makes it official. Neither the federal government nor the states has the power to say how we worship.

    Way back when I was in fourth grade, when prayer in the schools was still considered okay, I had a teacher whose husband was a Quaker meeting leader. We had a prayer in class everyday right before we went to lunch and the prayers came right out of the Quaker church. We had two Witnesses in that class whose church taught them not to pray another churches prayers. They just sat quietly and accepted the occasional criticism for not participating in the prayers.

    But the mud really hit the fan a few months in when some Catholic parents found out what was happening. They were outraged that everyone in the class wasn’t kneeling and crossing themselves before the prayers. Praying wasn’t the problem, the prayers not being Catholic was.

    And there you have the problem. If states say there should be prayer in school, whose prayer will it be. Which brand pf Christianity? And it’d better not reference Jesus because that would offend the Jews and Muslims. Allah, meanwhile, would offend the Christians and the Jews. And we still haven’t covered the Buddhists and the Jains or the Native American religions… religions with a “s”.

    Prayer belongs in church, where individuals make a choice, not in public school classrooms.

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    • MorganComment by Morgan
      September 6, 2012 @ 7:16 pm

      I agree with part of your post. This part I disagree with

      (quote)Prayer belongs in church, where individuals make a choice, not in public school classrooms.(endquote)

      I think prayers in schools should be ok, but not teacher led. Let the kids pray to whom ever they want and do it silently.

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  16. colt1911Comment by colt1911
    September 6, 2012 @ 7:19 pm

    If any parent wishes that their little darling not take part in prayer, then let that child suffer for the lack of religion. Let us not punish the majority for a few clabber-heads that are looking for an excuse to be offended.

    We were better off when Prayer, Character, Patriotism, and Respect for Elders were part of an education. Now all that is obsolete and look at the current generation.

    Liberalism and Ethnic diversity are working so well….Don’t think so.

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  17. bizzybuzzerComment by bizzybuzzer
    September 6, 2012 @ 8:02 pm

    The First Amendment to the Constitution reads: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech…..so Uncle Sam..Shut Up !
    The bible says that if you are not a member of the family of God that God does not hear your prayers. Just because praying in school has been a custom, does that make it right? What about Easter ? It is a pagan holiday, a custom, but called a Christian holiday and egg hunts are held on the White House lawn every year. It is also custom to lie and cheat within the government. Does that make it right ?

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  18. bizzybuzzerComment by bizzybuzzer
    September 6, 2012 @ 8:18 pm

    I am a Christian. When growing up we had scripture read to us every morning. 1) Scripture to a grade school student is difficult to understand and 99% of them never try to understand. 2) That same 99% pay no attention to scriptures or what is said in a prayer. 3) Too often a grade school kid knows very little about God, scriptures, or prayer.
    It offends most Christians to have prayer removed and it should, that is, if it is being done properly in the first place. Congress opens each session with prayer. Why ? Are they all Christians, Muslim, Catholic, Buddhists ?
    Finally, it seems wrong to throw God (can I say that ?)out of leadership activities in a country founded on His word. If I were to offer $500.00 if you could find Anything in your life that isn’t covered by government law, you would die a poor man….or woman. :)

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  19. jsk1108Comment by jsk1108
    September 6, 2012 @ 9:53 pm

    @Allen S Why should the US government support preferential treatment of one religion over another in institutions that are publicly funded? It is every person’s right to attend or send their children to private schools which teach the values and beliefs that they agree with, and our forefathers explicitly stated in first amendment of the Constitution that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” Let us know what you think by voting at http://bit.ly/PNqrSE.

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  20. colt1911Comment by colt1911
    September 6, 2012 @ 10:07 pm

    “Congress shall make no law” means it ain’t none of their damn business. Plain and simple; The schools are free to worship or not. I don’t know of a single child who’s life has been marred by Jesus but their is an entire generation weekened by touchy/feely liberalism. Think about it people.

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    • cxComment by genesal
      September 7, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

      oppps you forgot “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

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  21. poorgrandchildren.comComment by poorgrandchildren.com
    September 6, 2012 @ 10:43 pm

    Words have consequences. So long as we call them public schools, they will have us on the defensive. They are socialist (government owned) schools. I know that freedom is un-American, but why not try it again? Try vouchers.

    But whatever you do, please stop using their words to fight for our principles.

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  22. awkingsleyComment by awkingsley
    September 6, 2012 @ 10:56 pm

    Another blogger suggested that we should have religious celebrations in schools. The suggestion was Christmas and Easter. While I am an Evangelical Christian, I feel that some children are left out of these events. However, there are at least 6 Festivals of LIght for 8 different religions between Thanksgiving and Christmas: November 13 Diwali(Hindu, Jain, Sikh), December 9-16 Hanukkah (Jewish), December 25-Christmas (Christian), November 15-Hijra Islamic New Year (Islam), November 25- Day of the Covenant (Baha’i), and December 8 – Rohatsu (Buddhist). These are all festivals of light, celebrations of the light of God. Why not pick a day, somewhere after the 1st. of December before Christmas Holidays start for students, and light a Christmas tree with a prayer read in celebration of all 8 religions? This would be a sweet way in which to start off the Christmas Holidays, and it would be an acknowledgement of all religions. Students could even attach little rolled up prayers to the tree tied up in red ribbons, maybe part of an English class exercise. Atheists can write a New Year’s resolution for the world. After the prayers are placed on the tree, the tree can be lit to bring the light of God to the world for all. The reason to use a Christmas tree for the universal religious festival of lights is that they are really beautiful when lit, and children love them. They are one of the most beautiful diplays of light anyone has invented to date. Thanksgiving is a great holiday to celebrate because it is all inclusive. I’m also for prayer in public schools for special events, prayers addressing God, the univeral God.

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  23. Pingback: » American Taliban Watch: Ryan Joins Romney In Supporting School Prayer Liberal Values

  24. bizzybuzzerComment by bizzybuzzer
    September 7, 2012 @ 1:13 am

    Our schools were started to teach the bible and it was a text book. Also, they taught reading, writing, and arithmetic. It was customary to start with prayer. Lots has changed since then. The bible was banned, prayer was banned and even the 3 R’s are questionable. In some schools the Koran has been made a text book and prayer is included.
    When we went into battle we prayed for ourselves and our fellow soldiers in the name of Jesus. Now that is not allowed. Remember the First Amendment ? Why do we allow this folks ??? We raise thunder when told to take down the 10 Commandments. The Ten Commandments were set aside over 2,000 years ago for Christians, so why create the problem in the first place ? Christians are not under the law now. We recognize the 10 Commandments as part of Gods plan educating us but it isn’t possible for man to be redeemed by law. Only thing saving us is Grace when we believe in God. Why should we even pass the buck to the states ? This is food for atheists and just something else for the government to mess up.

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    • colt1911Comment by colt1911
      September 7, 2012 @ 5:37 am

      bizzybuzzer, You make some very good points. My take on your last question; We are no longer one country. If a State is OK with Tax Payer paid sex change operations for convicted criminals, Gun Bans and God Bans, let them woller in their own liberal fecal matter. Many of us Christian Patriots in Texas and other fine states do not desire to live that way.

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  25. bizzybuzzerComment by bizzybuzzer
    September 7, 2012 @ 1:47 am

    The subject of prayer, in school or not, is important and needs to be understood. Just one more thing to say then I will shut up. Thank you, Thank you…
    Prayer is; speaking to or communicating with God. In it’s purest sense, prayer is talking with God. To pray there must be an acknowledgment of God’s existence, hope that He cares about us, and expectation that God is willing and able to respond to us. Jesus went off to a private place to pray. Again, what has the government got to say, federal, state, or local about this. Why insist on prayer in schools ?

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