Last Updated:July 25 @ 12:17 pm

NY, NJ lawmakers want ammunition sales restricted

By Verena Dobnik

NEW YORK (AP) - Ten days after the Colorado movie theater massacre, federal lawmakers introduced a bill that would effectively ban people like suspect James Holmes from buying thousands of rounds of ammunition by mail or online.

"It's time to close the loophole that's allowing killers — deranged, insane — and even terrorists to buy ammunition online," said U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey.

He was joined Monday on the steps of City Hall in Manhattan by U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York to announce the Stop Online Ammunition Sales Act.

McCarthy's husband was killed and their son paralyzed in 1993 after a gunman opened fire on a Long Island Rail Road train, leaving five others dead.

Lautenberg said he and McCarthy, both Democrats, were "on a mission": to ensure the safety of all Americans by passing legislation that would close loopholes in gun laws allowing people like the suspect in the Aurora, Colo., shootings "to anonymously stockpile for mass murder."

Under the bill, only licensed dealers would be allowed to sell ammunition. They would have to notify a law enforcement official within five business days about any sale of more than 1,000 rounds to an unlicensed person.

The bill also would require buyers who aren't licensed dealers to show a photo ID. And that would mean eye contact with someone purchasing ammunition.

"If you're going to buy these large amounts of ammunition, somebody should see your face," Lautenberg said.

Holmes purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition online "like you might order shoes or food," Lautenberg said. "He didn't have to interact with another human being who could have noticed his abnormal behavior."

The legislation, to be introduced in Congress this week, was spurred by the Colorado movie theater shooting rampage that killed 12 people and injured more than 50. The suspect, Holmes, was charged Monday with 142 counts in the massacre; he hasn't yet entered a plea.

The July 20 rampage follows other recent mass violence including the 1999 Columbine shootings, the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre and last year's shooting in Tucson that killed six and seriously injured U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona.

"We are calling for a national outcry to stop gun violence in this country," McCarthy said.

On the morning after the Aurora killings, McCarthy said, she was brought back "to that moment when your family went through a similar tragedy, and the pain does not go away."

The White House on Monday didn't immediately offer its support to the Democrat-sponsored bill.

"I haven't seen the specific piece of legislation that has been offered up today," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said at the daily briefing, adding that it would be "evaluated."

He said President Barack Obama "believes in the Second Amendment of the Constitution, in the right to bear arms." But the president "also believes that we should take robust steps, within existing law" to address gun issues.

Since the Aurora shootings, one of the most outspoken voices in favor of gun control has been New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is pressing Obama and his Republican challenger Mitt Romney to tackle the issue of gun violence.

_____

Julie Walker from AP Radio also contributed to this story.

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NY, NJ lawmakers want ammunition sales restricted, 3.8 out of 10 based on 19 ratings





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43 Comments

  1. hwood007Comment by hwood007
    July 31, 2012 @ 9:36 am

    Firearms in US cause about 29,000 deaths yearly, with 16,600 from suicide and 10,800 from homicide, the rest from other reasons, so more people die from guns at their own choice than at the choice of another. There are other means that cause more deaths and we have yet to discuss getting rid of cars and doctors.

    Traffic deaths number 43,000 a year; so do we outlaw cars?

    Preventable medical errors in hospitals cause 44,000-98,000 a year, some which may actually have happened outside hospitals, so do we forbid medical care?

    Nut cases can kill with many things, had a fatal gas been used in the Dark Knight case, most of the people in the closed building would have suffered.

    A group of girls just stabbed a elder man at NYC subway station, do we prohibit knives?

    Depending on your beliefs, there is one cause of death in America that is far greater than all the others, each day 37,000 abortions take place in our country.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      July 31, 2012 @ 12:16 pm

      Sadly enough, allowing guns to be outlawed will eventually lead to outlawing anything these knee-jerk liberals deem dangerous. Just look at Great Britain during the recent riots. People couldn’t own guns to protect themselves from the hooligans, so sales of baseball bats online skyrocketed. Soon the British government decided that perhaps baseball bats should be illegal.

      http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/17/britain%E2%80%99s-criminal-utopia/

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    • capricorn1Comment by capricorn1
      July 31, 2012 @ 2:21 pm

      ANY POLITICIAN IN AMERICA WHO INFRINGES ON OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ESPECIALLY THE 2ND AMENDMENT,SHOULD BE SHOWN THE DAM DOOR OUT.AND THEN ESCORTED TO THE BORDER AND KICKED IN THERE BUM.

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  2. karen13Comment by karen13
    July 31, 2012 @ 9:54 am

    I am a big supporter of all of our constitutional rights especially the first and second amendments but I am surprised to find that I can support this legislation or think I can without reading if there are hidden zingers.

    The average firearm owner does not need to buy copious amounts of ammunition thus I would support limiting purchase across the board to less than 1000 rounds. Seriously why would you even buy 500 rounds at a pop from an online source? The shipping would be quite expensive.

    If we use our brains to close loop holes such as this we can protect our rights and make it more difficult for the deviant arms purchaser to fulfill his wants.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      July 31, 2012 @ 10:38 am

      Let’s see, I am the 4-H rifle project leader for my county. Twice this past year I have purchased a case of .22 target ammo because it is MUCH cheaper online than local. Did you know that a case of ammo contains “gasp” 5,000 rounds? You might also be interested to know that 30 kids learning to shoot can go through 5,000 rounds in about 3 months. That is only shooting one night a week.

      Ammo of any caliber has gotten quite expensive and purchasing online in bulk is the only way some of us can still afford to go to the range and practice as often as we should. Anyone who carries should practice shooting their firearm as often as they possibly can in order to develop proficiency and familiarity with the gun. You don’t want that gun to fail you at the moment you need it most.

      If you think this legislation will prevent criminals from getting all the ammo they want, you are mistaken. It will just stop the law-abiding people from purchasing at a price that will allow them to practice regularly. I’m just gonna have to learn to do my own reloads with such an anti-gun sentiment among the pansy lawmakers who likely have their own bodyguards for themselves and their children.

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    • newrepublicanComment by newrepublican
      July 31, 2012 @ 11:18 am

      Karen,
      First the USG limits you from purchasing 1000 rounds without a visual identification, then they legislate 500 rounds, then they legislate 1 round … and have effectively stopped the people from ever overthrowing an unjust government. Notice the fox did not limit our right to “OWN GUNS” but eliminated our ability to use them!

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    • KMcCComment by KMcC
      July 31, 2012 @ 11:30 am

      The Second Amendment of the Constitution was implemented and voted on to allow the citizens of the USA to overthrow an Opressive Government. That means when a Party or individuals over take the government and essentially put the citizens under the THUMB / ABSOLUTE Rule / over / repressive regulation — WE the PEOPLE should have the ability to fiscally take back our country as we did against King George and British Empire…
      In my opinion Nazi Germany and Communist Russia would not have existed soooo very long if the people had all been armed!

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    • snattlerakeComment by snattlerake
      July 31, 2012 @ 11:38 am

      One should do one’s homework prior to making naive comments…

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    • paladin5150Comment by paladin5150
      July 31, 2012 @ 2:11 pm

      The media is making a big deal of the fact that he had 6000 rounds of ammo. Actually, the bulk of that purchase was still sitting in his booby trapped apartment when the police got there, therefore it was a NON FACTOR in the shooting. His “evil” 100 round drum magazine jammed and had to be discarded, thus (depending on how may rounds he got off before it jammed) becoming less of a factor in the carnage. He emptied the shotgun (9 rounds max)into the ceiling and so it was a NON FACTOR in the body count. So banning the online sale of more than 1000 rounds would have had no effect on the outcome of this shooting. But of course liberals never let a good crisis go to waste in promoting their agenda.

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    • Kevin KoloffComment by Kevin Koloff
      July 31, 2012 @ 3:22 pm

      No Karen13 you are not a second amendment supporter. That amendment was written (Jefferson) to protect the people against a rouge government. Why would you not trust an individual with 1000 rounds of ammunition as opposed to a single round? Rational (I guess) is that only one person could be shot with a single round vrs. 1000. Think about what you are posting. If you cannot trust the gunowner you want background checks, those are in place. Social issues are what they are. Until those are addressed you will have these tragadies.
      I have to ask, would you permit law enforcement with automatic weapons, and 1000′s of rounds of ammo?

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    • CharlieComment by vietnamvet
      July 31, 2012 @ 4:42 pm

      It’s alwasy sad to see a gun owner / 2nd Amendment supporter who is dumber than dirt.
      If you don’t ‘need’ a thousand rounds of whatever you shove in that revolver you keep in the bedside table, Karen, that has no bearing on the amount of ammunition ‘needed’ by the competitive target shooter, the firearms instructor, or the armed citizen who will show up to save your dumber-then-dirt butt, Karen, when a tyrannical government decides YOU don’t NEED a gun of ANY kind.

      Do you know WHY the right of the people shall not be infringed, Karen?
      It is because a well regulated militia is neccesary for the security of a free state.

      Militia is ‘armed citizens’ capable of warlike action, Karen.
      And well regulated means equipped with armament appropriate to the task of warfare, and being familiar with it’s function and practised in it’s use.

      Think about it, Karen …

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    • montie364Comment by montie364
      July 31, 2012 @ 7:19 pm

      You are sadly mistaken. When I could afford it I was buying lots of 1000 – 1500 rounds for target shooting every other month. It is far cheaper buying military surplus bulk ammo at 50 to 90% off per round. An example a 20 box of factory (Remington or federal) for my rifle is around $20 = $1000 per thousand or $1
      per round. For military surplus I get 1000 for around $300 or around 3 cents a round. Some target shooters I have met shoot upward of a thousand rounds a month or more. As for the shipping it usually runs around $30 per thousand.

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    • thecitizenComment by thecitizen
      August 1, 2012 @ 1:21 am

      @ newrepublican: “First the USG limits you from purchasing 1000 rounds without a visual identification, then they legislate 500 rounds, then they legislate 1 round … and have effectively stopped the people from ever overthrowing an unjust government. Notice the fox did not limit our right to “OWN GUNS” but eliminated our ability to use them!”

      Absolutely correct: ‘Let us’ own guns but eliminate or severely limit our ability to use them to resist our own govt tyranny, aid in the defense against foreign incursion, or, to even provide adequate self defense against criminals or crazies bent on doing us bodily harm or death.

      Want to ‘stock up’ on ammo? Someone knowing for certain may speak to this issue to correct me but I understand there are already laws in place or at least the govt has ‘jaw boned’ ammo manufacturers into artificially engineering a much shorter shelf life for ammo. (A win-win for the manufacturers!).

      Load your own? ‘Today’, as far as I know that is a fairly unencumbered option but these guys are insidious and relentless so I wouldn’t bet on ‘tomorrow’. Plus, with loading/reloading there are start up cost (equipment, scales, etc.) that many will not want to incur, and, it is a delicate, tedious task for which mistakes are not lightly forgiven.

      While we’re so busy rowing our own boat just trying to survive, look for ‘them’ to surreptitiously continue their agenda.

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    • paulesavemeComment by paulesaveme
      August 1, 2012 @ 7:04 am

      Dear Karen13,
      By your own standard, you fall right into the playbill for citizen control. It is truly sad to hear a Second Amendment enthusiast fall for blatant lies. Why do you worry about what the shipping costs amount to ? Why does anyone worry about how many rounds are bought at one time ? There are good, and there are evil people. The good have the wisdom to arm and protect themselves against the evil ones. Get use to it Karen, the “laws” release the evil back on the street to wreck havoc over and over again. Have you not noticed this ? Please do get your act together. Supporting the communist left agenda kills America.

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    • catmanComment by catman
      August 1, 2012 @ 4:03 pm

      Sorry Karen13 – you are not a supporter of the constitution or an intelligent thinker.

      If the USG restricts sales of 1,000 rounds, first you will see ammunition packaged in 999 round boxes – that is not rocket science!

      Second, the purchaser can buy from multiple sources – so they can buy 500 rounds from 20 stores and they have have 10,000 rounds. Also, not rocket science.

      But also, since you are not a serious shooter, you probably don’t know that many serious lawful shooters buy ammunition in 5,000 to 10,000 round lots, because they shoot a lot, or they teach, or they sponsor a team, or it’s just plain cheaper to buy in volume (like all other consumer goods).

      During the 1990′s when the assault weapons ban was in effect – that law banned magazines over 10 rounds. During those same ten years, there was not a single day that you could not buy a magazine that held over ten rounds.

      Laws like this one proposed do nothing to solve a problem, and actually make things worse, because they are a placebo that stops us from doing something more complex that can solve the problem…

      .. in effect is says, “See, we passed a law, now we can get back to business as usual.”

      Bad thinking!

      (I might add that I own a federally licensed ammunition manufacturing company, and know the industry very well – and I shoot more than 2,000 rounds a month.)

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  3. Ken WalkerComment by Ken Walker
    July 31, 2012 @ 9:58 am
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  4. Ken WalkerComment by Ken Walker
    July 31, 2012 @ 10:03 am

    If we used our brains, as is suggested above, by Karen, we could see that even though he and others had purchased a large amount of ammunition, there has never been over 100 rounds used (the common one box purchase) in any of these attacks. Anyone who shoots frequently can go through 5 or 6 thousand rounds in less than a month. I typically shoot 5 or 600 rounds every two weeks. Limiting the purchases will have no zero none etc. effect upon a mad man who has intent to kill! The worst thing that ever happened to NJ was the digging up and re-instating a worn out piece if dirt in the US Senate….he has no purpose in life but to make life miserable for others.

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    • paladin5150Comment by paladin5150
      July 31, 2012 @ 2:20 pm

      Remember Ken that anti-gunners never let the facts get in the way of a good argument. (nor liberals in general for that matter) I myself put a minimum of 100 rounds through each of my weapons every time I go to the range and can easily burn up 1000 rounds in a session. I haven’t bought ammo from a brick and mortar store in 15 years, mostly because of their mark-up but also because of the convenience. And I usually get free or discounted shipping because I buy in quantity.

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    • paulesavemeComment by paulesaveme
      August 1, 2012 @ 7:10 am

      Ken Walker, I could not have written your comment any better then you had. Stay safe, we need you more then ever.

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  5. raguclancyComment by raguclancy
    July 31, 2012 @ 10:21 am

    The problem here, is someone did try to notify people about this guy. The owner of the gun club thought he was a strange and possibly dangerous individual. And the media was making him out to look like an idiot. Where were his professors at? He was in a masters program, shouldn’t these supposed superior inteligent individuals noticed this guy? The amount of ammunition you by is inconsequential. Just another way to try and implement gun control.

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  6. genesalComment by genesal
    July 31, 2012 @ 10:22 am

    The very idea that our Founding Fathers had in mind is that we had more weapons and more bullets than those who would try to take them away from us.

    Do they restrict the amount of alcohol or cigarettes that one may ‘hoard’ at home? No. Was the killers bombs banned? Yes.

    I don’t recall reading ‘average firearm owner’ in the Constitution. The militia made their own ammo and I’m sure they made more than they could use at any one time.

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  7. walterfComment by walterf
    July 31, 2012 @ 11:10 am

    I go to the range once a week and sometimes more often to keep my skills current. On an average trip I will fire between two and three hundred rounds of pistol and rifle ammunition. The ability to buy ammo in bulk helps keep the cost of my training affordable. If the cost of the shipping is more then the savings on the ammunition then it will not sell. Buying over a thousand rounds is as simple as two boxes of .22 ammunition and when I take my son and daughter both for practice we can go through that in one afternoon. If a deranged person wants to buy a large quantity all they would do is make multiple purchases of amounts below 1,000. This murderer purchased his firearms legally, in person, and no one noticed any “abnormal behavior” so I am not sure why someone else would have seen anything when they purchased ammunition.

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  8. Rodney PenceComment by Rodney Pence
    July 31, 2012 @ 11:23 am

    So, with the way that the sorry politician have been Runing YOUR Country, your willing to give-up more of YOUR Rights to these sorry Usless politician! Never to get them back again…Whats wrong with the people of the USA? I have ordered More then 6000 rounds at a time (You get them cheaper that way) for my own use, on the range. Remember “Obama’s Friends” (You know the ones) have KILLED More policer-officer with home made bombs then all of my guns have! Have a nice day!

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  9. goodguynyComment by goodguyny
    July 31, 2012 @ 12:01 pm

    “Under the bill, only licensed dealers would be allowed to sell ammunition. They would have to notify a law enforcement official within five business days about any sale of more than 1,000 rounds to an unlicensed person.”

    The bill says nothing about a buyer having to have a license.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      July 31, 2012 @ 12:19 pm

      The way I read that, anyone but a licensed person purchasing more than 1,000 rounds will be reported to the police. That sounds like anyone but a person with an FFL will be reported. Most gun-owners don’t have an FFL.

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  10. thomasjeffersonComment by thomasjefferson
    July 31, 2012 @ 1:25 pm

    I love how the government punishes 350,000,000 people because of the actions of a few hundred. The liberal thought process leaves a great deal to be desired.

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  11. greenteethComment by greenteeth
    July 31, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

    Goverment is so scared of us owning guns and ammoe, because they know they are becomming the target.

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  12. Gil PayneComment by Gil Payne
    July 31, 2012 @ 2:12 pm

    The criminal element will always get their amo and guns. Restricting the purchase of amo will only open up a black market and the crooks will make all of the money. What happened in Colorado is very unfortunately and tragic for all of the innocents. I am sure that theaters will make use of better security at their emergency exit doors. If there had been one legally armed citizen in the theater things might have turned out different.

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  13. slickzipComment by slickzip
    July 31, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

    Only stupid east coast socialist/communist/liberals would dream up something like this,,,,,,,,

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  14. BillzillaComment by Billzilla
    July 31, 2012 @ 2:40 pm

    “Holmes purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition online “like you might order shoes or food,” Lautenberg said. “He didn’t have to interact with another human being who could have noticed his abnormal behavior.”

    Seems to me that in addition to being a “licensed dealer”, you’d have to be a trained psychologist, or a psychiatrist to be able to spot a psycho. Oh, wait, I forgot, his professors had their doctorate degrees in these fields, and somehow they missed the signs on this guy!

    Lautenberg would be a sad joke if he wasn’t a US Senator, instead the jokes on us, and we pay this guy’s salary with our taxes! what in the world possesses the voters in New Jersey to vote a Lautenberg into ANY office whatsoever?

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    • paulesavemeComment by paulesaveme
      August 1, 2012 @ 7:20 am

      Billzilla, I just do not know why ! They are all “sin, dipped in misery” citizens, if you ever ask me. These type would be the ones who grab on to you and take you down if they were ever drowning. Helpless, hopeless, just ignorant, mindless creatures.

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  15. hwood007Comment by hwood007
    July 31, 2012 @ 3:19 pm

    I and many others are still under an oath that requires us to defend this country. I am sure many will join me if the time comes that we are needed.

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    • montie364Comment by montie364
      July 31, 2012 @ 7:27 pm

      You damn straight, I took my oath in 1980.

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  16. solutionsComment by solutions
    July 31, 2012 @ 3:42 pm

    Sorry, limiting ammo is another liberal stupidity designed to make it appear they are doing something. The number of bullets are irrelevant since 1-no one is every going to kill 6000 people with a gun or guns before they are stopped and 2-anyone can make all the ammo they want at home with a few simple tools. The issue is the profile and certification process. Personally, I am tired and bored with hearing how it CAN’t be done especially when one reviews the ridiculous processes of obtaining a drivers license, a liquor license or a building permit. Secondly, it is preposterous to assume that more or stricter laws will scratch the surface of the issue since guns used to commit crimes are typically illegal, as in not registered and or stolen leaving them untraceable. Enforcement of current law and proper due diligence is indeed the answer.

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  17. OldpatriotComment by Oldpatriot
    July 31, 2012 @ 4:37 pm

    Typical liberal thought process. Make life tougher for the law abiding and ignore the real problem. Criminals never care about any law, that’s why they are criminals. That’s why gun laws don’t work as intended and adding one more won’t make a bit of difference. If the libs really wanted to make a dent (I fully realize that is an impossibility) they would make a push to outlaw gun free zones where all these massacres occur.

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  18. rolandd1Comment by rolandd1
    July 31, 2012 @ 11:00 pm

    Can anyone make a law of intent? Do you no what lurks in the heart of man? Can you make everyone act or conform to the “norm”?
    Let us get real folks, crazy is as crazy does, and no amount of laws can fix that.

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  19. iijadedComment by iijaded
    July 31, 2012 @ 11:23 pm

    I curious how folks know that he had “strange” behavior leading up to his alleged act that someone selling him merchandise would have absolutely recognized. I think that those who don’t like guns and actively move to restrict the good people of this country regarding firearms is very strange and unpatriotic behavior. Placing many of the restrictions on small business owners like the legislators are proposing is going to hurt us. Not only will we lose business, but we will have additional information safeguards we will have to follow (probably self-imposed) to protect photocopies of DL and any other forms of required ID.

    Yes, I did build my business with the help of my savings, attitude, knowledge, and passion.

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  20. iijadedComment by iijaded
    July 31, 2012 @ 11:37 pm

    So the man in custody is said to have purchased thousands of rounds of ammunition, but only had a couple of hundred on him. That is because ammunition weighs a lot and if he really did try to carry the thousands he purchased, he would either have to be Paul Bunyan or move very slow and not have great balance & agility.

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  21. paulesavemeComment by paulesaveme
    August 1, 2012 @ 6:39 am

    And I ask now again….How are “they” to enforce this useless law ? Well, to punish and burden the lawful firearm owner, that is how,as usual. Have “we” had enough of this uselessness yet ?

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  22. bmpazComment by bmpaz
    August 1, 2012 @ 8:14 am

    I’m sick and tired of the cluelessness, the ignorance blinded by arrogance of liberals and left. If you ban 1000 rounds, they’ll buy 900. Restricting ammo sales to gun shops only will do nothing. So a guy working the counter at a gun store is going to psycho-analyze a customer and try to figure out why he’s buying ammo? These people would be funny if they weren’t so freakin dangerous attempting to sentence us all to an environment where we’re defenseless and left to the whims of the most maniacal and perverted of society. Leftists should NEVER have a majority in government ANY MORE! Keep a few around to remind those with half an ounce of common sense what drugs can do to your brain.

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  23. bmpazComment by bmpaz
    August 1, 2012 @ 8:20 am

    If bans work so well, ban crime and criminals! These people are incapable of reasoned and rational thought. They’re obsessed with blaming mass murder on those who didn’t do the crime. America’s 80 million plus gun owners didn’t senselessly kill people in Aurora, CO. The human piece of debris James Holmes did. Don’t even get me started on someone from NY screaming for more gun control. You live in a city with some of the strictest gun laws, over 30,000 police, and yet some of the highest violent crime rates. Open your freakin eyes!

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  24. handymanherbComment by handymanherb
    August 1, 2012 @ 9:59 am

    Ban politicians

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  25. diksumComment by diksum
    August 2, 2012 @ 12:37 am

    In response to the comment by montie364:

    “For military surplus I get 1000 for around $300 or around 3 cents a round.”

    Your math skills reveal that you are probably a graduate of a public school.

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