Last Updated:April 22 @ 10:43 pm

N. Mexico police fired at van full of kids driven by uncooperative mother

By Albuquerque Journal (NM)

State Police are investigating an Oct. 28 traffic stop gone wrong south of Taos in which an officer fired at a van as it sped away with five children inside.

A video of the dashboard camera, which appeared on CNN, ABC and other national media over the weekend, shows one officer trying to bash in a window as the children scream and then another officer firing when the driver takes off.

New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas issued a statement Monday calling the incident "concerning" and said a thorough investigation was underway.

"I have, of course, reviewed the video and do have concerns relating to the conduct of the officer who discharged his firearm," Kassetas said. "As the Chief of the New Mexico State Police, I take all officer-involved shooting investigations seriously and, once this investigation is complete, I will take appropriate disciplinary action if warranted."

According to State Police reports, on the afternoon of Oct. 28, officer Tony DeTavis pulled over a van driven by 39-year-old Tennessee woman Oriana L. Farrell of Memphis for speeding. There were five children in the van.

As the incident unfolded, two other officers arrived. At one point, officer Elias Montoya fired three shots toward the van as Farrell pulled away from the police for a second time following the traffic stop. Montoya, in a police report, said he was shooting at the van's tires.

Video of the traffic stop and shooting shows that a brief struggle between an officer and Farrell's teenage son ensued before she sped away the second time, leading police on a high-speed chase to Taos.

At one point, an officer uses his baton to smash out a window on the van as children inside scream before Farrell drives away.

Montoya, who later bought the entire family dinner from McDonald's and brought it to them while Farrell and her 14-year-old son were being booked, wrote in his report that he fired at the van's left rear tire in an effort to immobilize the vehicle "so not to put any other human life in jeopardy."

"My decision in shooting at the tire and not at the driver was because of all the people in the vehicle. ... I may have exaggerated in keeping the muzzle of my weapon down so no innocent person would get hit with the shots I fired," he wrote.

Montoya and officer Anthony Luna were called to the scene to assist DeTavis. They arrived to a chaotic scene where DeTavis had already pulled out his Taser in an effort to thwart the advance of a 14-year-old boy who exited the vehicle and approached the officer.

According to Luna's report, just after arriving at the scene, he called out to DeTavis to ask if anyone in the car had a gun and DeTavis replied, "I don't know."

Enrique Knell, spokesman for Gov. Susana Martinez, provided a statement Monday saying that use of deadly force by a law enforcement officer is a "very serious issue."

"Governor Martinez is married to a former law enforcement officer, so she understands the dangers of the job and what officers face in the field," the statement added. "But she feels very strongly that police officers have to use the right judgment in situations like this, to provide for public safety. As such, the Governor shares the state police chief's concerns about this situation and looks forward to the completion of this investigation."

Farrell has been charged with intentional abuse of a child and aggravated fleeing of a law enforcement officer, both felonies, and a misdemeanor charge of possession of drug paraphernalia. Her son, Hezekiah, was charged with battery against a police officer and assault on a police officer.

Four other children, ranging in age from at least 6 to 16, were also in the minivan. Efforts to reach Farrell and her attorney for comment on Monday were unsuccessful.

Her children were turned over to the Children, Youth and Families Department and later placed in the care of a family friend. Farrell was later released on $10,000 bond. It's unclear what happened to her 14-year-old son.

Eighth Judicial District Attorney Donald Gallegos said Monday he didn't plan to bring criminal charges against the State Police officers.

Chief Kassetas' statement went on to say that State Police's top priority is to ensure officers respond appropriately so as to not complicate a situation and endanger others.

"If the investigation determines that the officer improperly discharged his firearm in this case, we will take swift action because improperly using a firearm isn't tolerated by the State Police," he said, adding that the traffic stop had turned into a dangerous situation that placed the public at risk.

There have been several State Police officer-involved shootings in recent weeks.

Stopped for speeding

According to the statement of probable cause and the dash-cam video, officer DeTavis pulled over Farrell's blue Kia Sedona minivan on NM 518 for traveling 71 mph in a 55 mph zone.

DeTavis told Farrell that she could either pay a fine or return to Taos to contest it before a judge. After he returned to his vehicle, allowing Farrell to contemplate the decision, she drove off.

DeTavis again engaged his emergency lights and followed the vehicle, which pulled over about a half mile up the road. This time, DeTavis demanded that Farrell get out of the vehicle and he spent several minutes trying to get her to do so, at one point grabbing her by the arm and trying to pull her out.

Farrell eventually did get out and walked to the back of the van to speak with DeTavis. When it became evident that he was going to arrest her, Farrell moved back toward the driver's side door.

Meanwhile, Hezekiah Farrell exited the van and a brief struggle ensued between him and DeTavis. The boy retreated to the passenger side of the van, got in and locked the doors. While DeTavis was engaged with the boy, Farrell got back into the driver's side of the van.

This was happening just as officers Luna and Montoya arrived. After attempting to open the door of the locked van, DeTavis put away his Taser, pulled out a collapsible baton and smashed a window on the passenger side, striking the window approximately four times.

Moments later, the van began pulling away and Montoya fired at the van.

A chase ensued at speeds reaching close to 100 mph through the small town of Talpa and into Taos.

The video of the pursuit shows the van weaving through traffic and making a right-hand turn onto NM 68 using a lane meant for traffic traveling in the opposite direction. A short while later, the van pulled into the entrance of the Don Fernando de Taos Hotel and stopped. All occupants of the van were made to lay face down on the ground, and Farrell and her son were arrested without further incident.

According to the Taos News, Farrell's attorney, Alan Maestas, said during her arraignment hearing last week that Farrell fled because "she was flat-out scared that something was going to happen to her children."

"We ought to talk about the stupidity and recklessness of shooting at a car that has five children in it," he said. "If someone ought to be charged with child abuse, it ought to be the New Mexico State Police."

Maestas did not return a phone message left by the Journal on Monday.

The Taos newspaper also reported that what are believed to be two marijuana pipes were found at the time of the arrests. State Police declined to answer any questions beyond the chief's statement.

___

(c)2013 the Albuquerque Journal (Albuquerque, N.M.)

Visit the Albuquerque Journal (Albuquerque, N.M.) at www.abqjournal.com

Distributed by MCT Information Services

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54 Comments

  1. momma4285Comment by momma4285
    November 19, 2013 @ 12:05 pm

    This sort of thing makes me ill. I may be crucified for saying this, but i feel sorry for that woman and her children for having to endure this gross abuse of power. I have been in a similar situation with law officers in that particular area. I was pulled over because my cousin, who was driving my MINIVAN, “failed to signal 200ft before a lane change” out in the middle of the desert in an area with almost no traffic. We were immediately pulled over and the officer asked if he could search my vehicle. When I hesitated to say yes (because of the vast invasion of privacy), I was told that I should go ahead and say yes because if I said no, it would mean sitting on the side of the road in the desert heat until another officer arrived with a warrant. I suppose driving a minivan is probable cause enough to suspect that it’s a drug transport vehicle. I reluctantly consented because I was on a long road trip, and, long story short, ended up in hand cuffs, standing on the side of the road in the hot summer desert sun for 3 hours. I walked away sun burnt, severely dehydrated (they wouldn’t even allow me a drink), and WITHOUT even so much as a ticket to show for the animalistic treatment I recieved. The law officers and border patrol in west Texas and New Mexico are incredibly corrupt. I am all for policing our borders to keep illegal immigrants out, but, just like all other government agencies, the corrupt need weeded out. This particular area should be under more scrutiny concerning officer corruption. If you don’t believe me, take a ride along I-10 through el paso and new Mexico. Just be careful not to drive a minivan or anything else they might deem worthy to be a transport vehicle.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      November 19, 2013 @ 1:44 pm

      Wasn’t it New Mexico where the guy was recently subjected to multiple cavity searches (included a scope) and enemas because a drug dog got a “hit” on his car? No drugs were ever found. To add insult to injury, the hospital sent the guy a bill for the medical procedures that he did not consent to having. On the heels of that fiasco, I wonder if the suspected marijuana pipes are even really marijuana pipes. It might just be convenient cover for excessive use of force. The police seem to really be getting out of hand. Their job is to de-escalate the situation but they seem to be doing the exact opposite.

      My brother who lives in Colorado refuses to drive through New Mexico when he travels to Texas. He has been hassled by the police there. I am beginning to think he is justified in his behavior.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      November 19, 2013 @ 1:58 pm
    • leadfoot320Comment by leadfoot320
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:26 pm

      I WATCHED THE VIDEO SEVERAL TIMES. I WISH WE COULD HEAR WHAT WAS SAID! DID SHE MISS UNDERSTAND THE OFFICER? SHE STOPPED THE SECOND TIME. THEN SHE IS SURROUNDED BY COPS. WHY DIDN’T THE SECOND CAR BLOCK HER IN? IT LOOKED LIKE THE KEYSTONE COPS! SHOOTING AT THE TIRE TO STOP A HIGH SPEED CHASE? MAYBE. SHE WAS TRYING TO GET TO WHERE THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE! NOT OUT IN THE DESERT WITH JUST COPS TO TELL THE STORY! (THE BLUE LINE!) I WOULD STILL LIKE TO HEAR WHAT WAS SAID! I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE WHOLE CHASE, WERE THY TRYING TO RUN HER OFF THE ROAD? SO SHE HAD TO GO THAT FAST? SHE WAS GOING IN TO TOWN. SHE WOULD BE STOPPED. SHE WANTED PEOPLE AROUND! SHE WAS AFRAID!
      THE 14 YR OLD WAS PROTECTING HIS MOTHER!
      I STILL WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT WAS SAID!

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:58 pm

      By the way, medical marijuana is actually legal in the state of New Mexico. They probably sell the paraphenalia like marijuana pipes in the dispensaries.

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    • momma4285Comment by momma4285
      November 19, 2013 @ 3:15 pm

      http://bigstory.ap.org/article/second-nm-lawsuit-filed-over-body-cavity-searches I believe your brother may be right, txgoatlady. I’m a Texas girl myself, but I lived in new Mexico near las cruces for a couple years. I’m not speaking from one small experience. Im outright saying – new Mexico police DO pick fights with basic traffic stops. They look for any excuse if they decide they want to pull over a vehicle. Remember how I said my cousin was driving my van and got pulled over for failing to signal 200ft before a lane change? It wasn’t that he DIDN’T signal. It was that the cop wasn’t satisfied with HOW LONG he signaled before the lane change. It was harassment, pure and simple.

      That said, I have the utmost respect for our law officers. I appreciate how hard the job can be. I have no problem with law officers in general, but I, too, refuse to return to “The Land of Entrapment – er – Enchantment”. Seriously though, NM locals do call it “The Land of Entrapment” for a reason. They say you come for vacation and leave on probation.

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    • gtimberlakeComment by gtimberlake
      November 19, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

       Hats off to momma 4285 and txgoatlady and JDZ. Some stand out good posts. Well spoken. Walking in someone else’s moccassins gives a different perspective.

      Some of our friends and posters are really quick to be hostile against the mother, the 14 year old and also against the posters who went on defense – giving a very rational and intelligent explanation as to what they could see and understand. Free speech does not demand a bloody nose for it’s practitioner. Hostile speech might be ‘free’. Eventually there may be a ‘cost’.

      It is one thing to disagree. It is another to lash out verbally against someone who is probably a very nice person and is obviously intelligent and thoughtful. You hide behind your keyboards…….What if you were speaking in person to that poster and what if that person (poster) was being escorted by a famous tough guy, boxer, fighter or some big guy given to steroid rage – or had just returned from war and had PTSD? What if that person you are yelling at was his mother or a close friend? How brave and tough are you then? What if when the cops pulled over the van a big strong man had come out of that van? How would he have been treated? What if the person in that van was related to or a friend of your boss or to a very wealthy and powerfully attorney? Can you say, “oops”? Perspective makes a difference. The 14 year old was concerned about his mother. -Drop the charges. – The mom was wrong, but she was scared or something.  71 in a 55. Now there’s a big threat.  ….She was dead wrong for leaving and she may have other problems, but it did not require the kind of action that was taken. Period….  She was a mom with kids and the police foolishness certainly escalated and vindicated her fears and also  her children’s fears and disrespect. I agree with JDZ. Remember the mom killed in Washington, DC? It did not have to happen. 

      The display by ‘law enforcement’ was rather brutal and lawless. The law should first be protector and defender – with good judgement and common sense, and then enforcer and ticket giver. Though the mom did not obey the policing persons and her son confronted the officer – that does not excuse the officers. The bigger picture involves the behaviors of the arresting officers. They were unprofessional, abusive and entirely wrong in their use of extreme and unnecessary force. The policing force is expected to have some knowledge and exposure to the law and to the proper use of good judgement. The bosses who train and motivate these guys to use this kind of treatment need to be looked at closely. Remember the coach that pushed his football team to physically harm the opposing players to gain advantage? Bosses have a responsibility for how their team plays and to police the ones who get out of line. I would say follow the money and the motivation. Scrutinize the bosses and the trainers. Also, scrutinize the training process. If this is an example of what they expect from their training then you have a much bigger problem. Often the guys at the bottom of the food chain get the misery and the bosses higher up, who make more money, get to slide. Regardless, this should have been handled better and if the men were trained for unusual contingencies they would be better prepared to act properly.  Good training begets good preparation.

      As I stated in another post…………”Does the will to respect our neighbors need to take a back seat to the right or the ability to protect and defend?”

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    • oldsargeComment by oldsarge
      November 19, 2013 @ 9:48 pm

      Leadfoot320:
      Here is the video from FOX. It has commentary and sound.
      http://video.foxnews.com/v/2847718441001/police-fire-at-mom-in-minivan-full-of-kids-in-chaotic-chase/?cmpid=NL_fntop

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  2. JDZComment by JDZ
    November 19, 2013 @ 1:18 pm

    Remember what happened in DC last month where the police killed a woman who had a baby in the car with her after a brief car chase and erratic behavior on the part of the woman driving the car. She had no weapons and was basically mentally unstable, but no threat to the police involved.

    Another recent case where a 14 year old boy was shot 7 times by police and killed for acting somewhat erratic, had no weapons, but for some reason acted in a manner causing deadly force to be taken by the police.

    In this case, the right thing for the lady driving the car was to just take the speeding ticket and move on, especially with 5 kids in the car. She obviously was rattled, especially with the number of law enforcement officers on the scene, and lost her cool and overreacted for some reason, however, shooting at the van was showing poor judgement on the part of the police that could have been disasterous to those in the van and totally unjustified.

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    • timdogComment by timdog
      November 19, 2013 @ 1:37 pm

      Stop making excuses for this lady. How hard is it to take the ticket and pay the fine? She was totally in the wrong and was fortunate something worse did not happen. If it did it would have been her fault for endangering her children.

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    • skepticComment by skeptic
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:34 pm

      The options were to pay the ticket NOW or go to court NOW. If you don’t have several hundred dollars available, you have a problem.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:41 pm

      I don’t understand why she had to pay the fine NOW. I have been ticketed in New Mexico before and I wasn’t told that I had to handle it right then. They simply issued me a ticket and sent me on my way. I mailed my payment to them after I got home.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 20, 2013 @ 12:20 am

      To txgoatlady;
      I was stopped for speeding in Utah about 35 years ago and was guven directions to the municipal building in Price Utah (appropriate name) and was told to go there to pay the fine. The cop told me the total cost and calculated the time it would take me to get there. He said if I didn’t arrive to pay the fine within ½ hour of his calculated time there would be a warrant issued for my arrest. I got there, found the correct office, went in and introduced myself and the Magistrate (or whatever his title was) looked at his watch and commented on how minutes I had to spare. If I had gotten there too soon I presume I would have gotten another fine, or at least some hassle for obviously speeding to get there that quickly. Whether it was all legal or not I don’t know. I didn’t study Utah law before we left home, it was a spur of the moment trip. I was recently married and we were on our way to visit my brother-in-law for Christmas. That was a holiday trip I’ll remember for a long time. It also served as an incentive to keep me from ever going back to Utah.

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  3. micdavtayComment by micdavtay
    November 19, 2013 @ 1:24 pm

    This sorry excuse of a mother caused all of this. In the beginning it was only one police officer. How did she get rattled by ONE freaking officer. How about let’s put some blame on her for endangering her children? She ran not once but twice.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 20, 2013 @ 12:24 am

      She should have kept her finger off the trigger?
      Yes, I’ll agree that she was in the wrong, but any officer (or anyone at all) who fires a gun into a vehicle in which innocent people, especially children, are passengers is completely out of bounds. There had to be at least 1000 better ways for the cops to handle that situation, and very few that could have been worse.Yes, mom fooked up big time but the cop fooked up a whole lot worse.

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  4. wingedhussar1683Comment by wingedhussar1683
    November 19, 2013 @ 1:37 pm

    I would call the 100 mile an hour chase justifiable self-defense against the unjustified use of a deadly weapon. The fact that the people in the car were screaming when the officer smashed the window suggests that the woman floored the accelerator not because she wanted to escape from “the police,” but rather because the officer frightened her and her children sufficiently to put her in reasonable fear of her physical safety.

    You do NOT so much as point a firearm, let alone discharge it, even in the general direction of somebody whom you are not justified in shooting. As far as I know, police are not justified in shooting somebody (or near somebody) for fleeing a traffic stop, although the driver can certainly be held accountable for doing so later on.

    Another thought–if the driver wanted to flee the police, why did she stop when they pulled her over again? It’s conceivable that she misunderstood the officer’s instructions the first time, although I did hear the officer tell her to turn the vehicle off.

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    • timdogComment by timdog
      November 19, 2013 @ 1:41 pm

      The whole situation could have been avoided if the mother would have just complied with the officer’s instructions. She was in fear of her physical safety? All she had to do was take the ticket and drive away. What a joke in defending her actions.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 20, 2013 @ 12:34 am

      And an even bigger joke in defending an officer discharging a firearm into a vehicle with several children passengers. He should be fired and barred for life from holding a job in law enforcement, corrections or any other position of similar authority. As a matter of fact he should be charged with 8 counts of attempted homicide, 8 charges of reckless endangerment and 7 charges of endangering the welfare of a child for every round he fired. That should be plenty to lock him up for the rest of his natural life.
      Mom should also be tried and punished for every legitimate charge against her too, but given consideration for the circumstances. (I don’t mean forgiveness, I mean consideration IF she was justifiably in fear for the lives and safety of her family).

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  5. cambofac71Comment by cambofac71
    November 19, 2013 @ 1:46 pm

    Sorry- -I side with the officers ! This lady ran- -twice! If she had kidnapped those children and it was later proven that the officers did NOTHING- – you would be screaming your head off. In addition – - this is New Mexico- – who knows what was actually in that car. These officers risk their lives every time they stop a car and this BIMBO didn’t exactly present herself as ”mother of the year”! As for momma 4285- – nice story. I am somewhat CERTAIN- -had you spent an afternoon in the sun, HANDCUFFED, and treated as an animal, your LAWYER would have you in a condo in CABO by now! I really don’t know how these cops do IT- – - the job really *****! ! !

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    • momma4285Comment by momma4285
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:35 pm

      Funny that you could be so certain of a subject you are so unfamiliar with… I am not in any condo because when you barely make enough money to make rent and feed your kids WITHOUT food stamps, you can’t afford to have lawyers at your beck and call. In an ideal world, lawyers would jump at the opportunity to defeat an injustice, pro-bono of course, but in the real world, even if you’re doing the right thing and you’re just too darn broke to prove it, you still just get pushed to the wayside sometimes.

      It’s sad that our younger generations are so busy crying wolf, so busily happy being the victims, that when REAL victimization happens, the whole world turns a cold shoulder because they have been desensitized to what a real victim looks like. I am not saying this woman is entirely innocent, but I could easily see why she could have been rattled and drove off the first time. Usually, an officer gives the “pay the fine or come back and fight it” speech after they have issued the ticket. Personally, after my incident, I am out-right fearful EVERY time I get pulled over because I had to endure a gross abuse of power. Because of that, I could see myself feeling rattled and out of sorts, getting the usual speech, and thinking, “Phew… I got off easy… Let’s get out of here before he changes his mind” and leaving. Miscommunications happen. Mistakes happen. In this crazy world, nothing is back and white, cut and dried. In fact there are more shades of grey than any one person could possibly imagine.

      Even the issue with the 14 year old sounds suspect to me… I’m willing to bet 10-1 the boy got out of the vehicle and approached the cop because his mom felt threatened and he was being “the good son” and trying to protect his momma. EVERY CHILD IN THE VEHICLE ENDED UP FACE DOWN IN THE DIRT. Even the 6-year-old. If you remove every other aspect of this, that alone is disturbing and appalling. Can you imagine the fear and trust issues that child has because (s)he was treated like a criminal after some scary cop tried to bash their windows in and shoot at them?! And then, in a sweeping hind-sight logic, they buy all the kids McDonald’s while they book the mom and the brother. So, what you have these children learning is that officers are mean, terrifying, abusive individuals who will shoot at unwilling victims in order to “get the bad guy”, who happens to be mom. To compound this, they also learn that it’s okay if someone harms or abuses you or your family as long as they buy you a treat to shut you up. THAT is surely the message our youth needs to learn.

      I have plenty of family who are officers of the law and even THEY are appalled by these officers’ actions. There is NO reason to SHOOT at a vehicle full of children. Again, I’m not saying mom is mother of the year, but the biggest concern here should have been what the children saw. You can’t take back a traumatic childhood experience and that definitely qualifies as traumatic. And BOTH parties are responsible for the mental trauma those children endured. Mom didn’t make the best decisions, but the actions of the officers were truly appalling. As a previous poster stated, these guys are supposed to be trained to de-escalate tricky situations. This is not a war zone where we shoot first and ask questions later, especially on an unarmed vehicle full of children.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 20, 2013 @ 12:39 am

      So if the lady kidnapped the children and hadn’t injured or killed them yet, the cop was justified in trying his hand at inflicting injury or death with his handgun?
      Better if they’re injured or killed by cops bullets than to take a chance on a hypothetical situation that so far hadn’t injured anyone?

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  6. TexannaComment by Texanna
    November 19, 2013 @ 1:51 pm

    Well, the moral of the story is, take your medicine when you break the law.

    This woman triggered this incident. I know everyone these days wants to make law enforcement into the bad guys automatically, but why would a person drive off over a ticket for driving fifteen miles an hour over the speed limit. Yes, there were children in the vehicle, but who made the decision to endanger those children? The mother, that’s who. The officer had no idea whether there were weapons in the car, illegal drugs, or whether the children were kidnap victims.

    Some people in this world today use children as either accomplices or shields for their criminal activities.

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    • bowieknife5Comment by bowieknife5
      November 19, 2013 @ 5:27 pm

      I have noticed some drivers think they can just drive any speed they wish on the highway, often totally disregarding the posted speed limit signs completely. So let’s tally the number of laws the driver of the van allegedly committed: 1) Exceeding the posted speed limit, 2) aggravated fleeing of a law enforcement officer. Now let’s examine the behavior of the driver of the van: 1) Acting erratically by being uncooperative with the state police, 2) Driving off before complying with the state police officer’s instructions, 3) Making willful decisions to create a scene with the state police, 4) Exhibiting irrational behavior leading to improper care of her own children during the entire incident.

      If drivers fail to comply with state police’s instructions, the end result may be a debacle for all people involved. However, the failure of the van driver to obey posted speed limits started the entire incident. This is a lesson in itself.

      My beef rests primarily with the person or persons who leaked this affair to CNN and ABC news networks. Although this may be the kind of news that titillates some citizens, it only aggravates me and confirms once again that Tattlers plus Hungry News Hawkers equals News I Do Not Need.

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  7. morethanoneComment by morethanone
    November 19, 2013 @ 1:54 pm

    I can’t believe the number of excuses for this stupid …mother! WHY?
    I’m curious what exactly ISN’T being told here. I’ve been stopped before (stupid reason, they recognized the truck I was driving and ***-umed it was the previous owner, I had just bought it and transferred ownership a couple of days before), they ALWAYS take your ID and Ins card back to their rig to run w&w. So she just decided to take off without her ID’s and Ins card (or not) the moment he turned his back?
    Yeah, makes me wonder what she thought he was going to be told when he looked her up?

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  8. cgm205Comment by cgm205
    November 19, 2013 @ 2:19 pm

    How anyone can not give blame to the driver of the van escapes me. The police were doing their duty. If the woman who would not follow instructions had accepted the ticket and then fought it in court no shots, no speeding, no reckless driving by either party.

    It really frosts me how people who break the law and cause their own children to be endangered become the heroes. This woman should have these children removed from her care. She is absolutely not fit to be a mother.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:29 pm

      I don’t think anyone is calling this woman a hero. She certainly screwed up. The issue is that trained professionals should not be overreacting and endangering others. Most law enforcement departments have rules against shooting at moving vehicles. (Saying he was going to shoot out the tires is laughable. It is extremely difficult to do.) They also have rules about high-speed chases in order to minimize dangers to the public. The cop could have shot someone in the car or one of the other police officers. Accuracy rates in police shootings tend to run from 15-40%. Not a real reassuring number for bystanders.

      Should the woman have stopped and done what the officer said? Yes. Did her behavior warrant shooting at a moving vehicle with children inside? Unlikely. They had her license number and direction of travel. She could have been intercepted further down the road by other law enforcement.

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  9. shadetree918Comment by shadetree918
    November 19, 2013 @ 2:21 pm

    That situation needs to be looked into and that so called cop needs to be pulled from duty he is a threat not only to himself but society. New mexico is a police state. fire him and sue hi *** off.

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  10. frank9Comment by frank9
    November 19, 2013 @ 2:26 pm

    Sorry, but the gun is WAY over the top, cop’s heads should roll.

    The driver made all kinds of mistakes and is criminally liable for them. The son should be cut some slack for defending his mother but he is old enough to know better and should have some consequences.

    The gun, no way! There were many other choices and deadly force is not called for. All the cops are liable as none tried to stop the shooting. When can lethal force be used, even by law enforcement?

    DEADLY FORCE CAN ONLY BE USED
    WHEN THERE IS IMMEDIATE AND
    OTHERWISE UNAVOIDABLE DANGER
    OF DEATH OR GRAVE BODILY INJURY
    TO THE INNOCENT.

    Chasing the car at high speeds for speeding is ridiculous, for a known killer OK, but speeding? What are the department procedures?

    Law suit time! (and I don’t like law suits)

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    • oldsargeComment by oldsarge
      November 19, 2013 @ 9:54 pm

      Both parties acted stupidly and irresponsibly. There is plenty of blame to go around in this. I also blame the race bating of the media. She appeared to be in a panic, and was actually afraid that the white police officers were going after her because she was black. Using clubs to shatter the glass in the doors could have caused serious injuries to the children in the car. What was that officer thinking by firing at a vehicle with children? They could have just called ahead for back-up. There isn’t a car made that can outrun a radio signal. I counted three policeman in that video. That means there must have been, at least, two police cars. They could have boxed her van in so she would be able to go nowhere. I am also curious as to why Holder, Sharpton and Jackson aren’t screaming bloody murder about this. I suspect there is more to this story than we have seen.

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  11. edreeComment by edree
    November 19, 2013 @ 2:46 pm

    I have seen police officers train in pistol shooting. While some of the best pistol shooters I competed against were police officers, the great majority of them are not exceptionally competent pistol shots. Whether Montoya was competent or not is irrelevant; to try to shoot out a tire on a moving occupied vehicle where no one is shooting back is a criminal act in itself, let alone one containing children. It is nearly impssible to do so successfully. Did Montoya ever hear of a gasoline tank in a vehicle, or how easily a ricochet can pierce aheet metal or plastic? Evidently the state of New Mexico doesn’t think the most basic common sense is required to be a State Police Officer. Shooting at the tires was in the best interests of the occupants – ****.

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    • pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
      November 19, 2013 @ 2:54 pm

      Also keep in mind that shooting at a range in a relaxed practice situation is a little different than shooting in a heated situation where all participants are excited. The best shooter can shoot like total c**p in that sort of a situation. Even a competition isn’t the same type of stress as this.

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  12. thgdriverComment by thgdriver
    November 19, 2013 @ 5:45 pm

    The narration over what the lady and policeman are saying is extremely annoying. I would have liked to hear everything she and he was saying. I could hear him say “I’ll be right back, go ahead and turn your car off for me. I “think” he was going to run wants and warrants and write her a speeding ticket for 16 MPH over the 55 limit. It’s my experience on the road that most drivers in a 55 MPH zone are already doing 60 to 65 MPH so if you don’t pay attention to your speedometer you can be going faster then you think. (I have never received a speeding ticket in my life, I’m just saying).

    I don’t think there were any past wants or warrants or the police would have said so in the report above.

    Someone said the Mariejeanne is legal there too. I have to comment from what I see, the women should have shut the engine off, take the ticket, move on with your life. In my state you can choose to challenge any fine/ticket you feel is wrong before a magistrate in 60 days. I don’t know the laws of other states.

    I feel very strongly that the policeman taking deadly force was wrong “in this case”. An adult doing a stupid act does not warrant the killing of 5 children and that could have easily been the result here.

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  13. ringmasterComment by ringmaster
    November 19, 2013 @ 5:53 pm

    POLICE officers cannot fire at a fleeing felon, unless he or others lives are endanger. Shooting out tires is only for hollywood.

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  14. timdogComment by timdog
    November 19, 2013 @ 6:01 pm

    gtimberlake your post is rambling and nonsensical. I don’t care who was in the car if they broke the law and acted like the mother they should have been arrested. Perspective has nothing to do with her breaking the law and then disobeying the officer’s clear instructions. It’s pretty simple. Comply with the officer’s lawful instructions and there would be no problem. “The mom was wrong but she was scared or something.” So if I break the law I can claim that I am scared and not follow the directions of law enforcement. That’s a slippery slope my friend. Concern over your mother(who was in the wrong) is no reason to assault a police officer. It would be a travesty of justice to drop the charges because of this lame excuse. He’s lucky he didn’t get tased. I will concede the officers could have handled it better but this is no excuse for the mother’s ridiculous actions.

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    • gtimberlakeComment by gtimberlake
      November 20, 2013 @ 4:51 am

      Timdog: I never suggested the mom was correct in her actions. I have a much greater concern in this situation for how badly this was handled by so-called ‘professionals’. See my response to micdavtay where I replay some of what I addressed. Thanks for reading my post.

      Perspective has to do with how a person views the misery of another. Perspective says you might be real tough with a woman or a 14 year old, but if a solid 350 pound linebacker or a professional boxer or wrestler steps out of that van you might remember how to be humble.You certainly won’t manhandle him. Perspective says you might talk a certain rough way on line to a fellow poster, but change your stance if you were in person. They just might have a friend with them that would take you to task for caustic or rude speech. You know beatings can be just as freely given as free speech can be delivered.

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  15. micdavtayComment by micdavtay
    November 19, 2013 @ 6:58 pm

    gtimber…What you just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    • gtimberlakeComment by gtimberlake
      November 20, 2013 @ 4:04 am

      Micdavtay: I am sorry you have reading problems and could not understand what I was saying. Thank you for reading the post. I responded to the actions of the mom and her son briefly. I responded to the actions of the cops because they were way out of line. I responded to my questions about their supervisors and their training procedures.  Those are questions that need asked and answered. They have a problem. I support law enforcement. These guys are way off. Was the guy smacking the window having a roid rage moment? Was he afraid for his life because  of a fear of small children? What a bully and a jerk. Was the officer shooting at the car following normal protocol?  I hope not. I responded to the people who made caustic posts to fellow posters who had made very intelligent and heartfelt comments. One can disagree with civility.  There was no reason to slap them down verbally. Why so harsh? -These hard-hearted and caustic posters are real smart and tough behind their keyboards. – If in person they might be more reasonable or someone might clean their plow. But you won’t get or understand any of this.  Comments are ‘unreasonable’ to you because you exhibit the qualities of a hater. It is ‘rambling’ because you did not like the message. One day ‘perspective’ will  bite you when you get in trouble. – when you get between a rock and a hard place. Sooner or later everyone gets a chance to suffer the indignities of someone else’s malpractice and bad behavior or from their own. You may be like the guy who stumbled over a rock and then kicked the rock and broke his toe. Regarding the mom and the police: There is a lot more to be known and we may or may not get the rest of the story. 

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  16. cgm205Comment by cgm205
    November 19, 2013 @ 7:25 pm

    So, It seems like all a bank robber would have to do is fill the escape car with one or more children and he could leave at his own leisure. Cops should not be allowed to take any measures to stop the felon if children might be endangered.

    What if your children were playing near or crossing the street when this crazy woman passed by. If the cops had slowed to 20 mph do you think she would have slowed down to a safe speed?
    They needed to get this mad person with a dangerous vehicle capable of high speeds off the road as soon as possible ALWAYS for the safety of the general public. It is the mom who has
    put the kids into mortal danger.
    Our society is so quick to transfer blame to law enforcement rather than to the one causing the problem to start with.

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  17. iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
    November 20, 2013 @ 1:04 am

    Many here are taking sides with either the cop or the woman driving the van. They were BOTH wrong and should BOTH be punished severely.
    I don’t care what the van driver did, there was no offense so serious that it was worth the cop shooting at children. They weren’t committing any crime (at least not that the cop had authority to act as judge, jury and executioner over).
    What could she have done that was bad enough for a cop to decide to risk the lives of 7 children for? When firing into a vehicle, those bullets will not travel a straight path, they will deflect and nobody knows which direction they may travel. Some might stop before penetrating the inner material of the vehicle, depending on what structural material they encounter. Most vehicles are no more than a skin of very thin steel or plastic then a layer of cardboard and a layer of very thin, light carpet or vinyl. A bullet will penetrate a door or tailgate with ease and have plenty of energy to maim or kill a person. Maybe the cop wasn’t “aiming” at a particular child, but shooting toward children that close together with unaimed and unpredictable shots is beyond stupid. It’s negligent, irrational and criminal. There is no excuse at all for such a despicable act.
    This is the third article I’ve read this week about New Mexico cops acting irrationally, endangering peoples lives and violating their rights in unimaginable ways. This schit has to stop!
    I’m not saying that mom didn’t put the kids in harms way and I’m not saying that she shouldn’t be punished. I’m also not saying her actions were in any way justified. What I’m saying is that this cop was completely out of line, regardless of what his perception of mom and her actions was, there is no reason to risk the lives of children, EVER… by ANYONE!
    They want to take guns away from average citizens with the premise that the police will protect us. First of all, the police can’t be in enough places to prevent all crime, they usually get there in time to take a report and count the bodies. Do the anti-gun people really expect us to accept the notion that people like that can and will protect us?!?!?!?

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    • gtimberlakeComment by gtimberlake
      November 20, 2013 @ 5:19 pm

      To iwerk2hard : you covered the situation very well. I especially appreciated the last part about “the notion that people like that will protect us”. That was a very important concept you brought out and I am glad you did. Good post.

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    • timdogComment by timdog
      November 20, 2013 @ 5:40 pm

      iwerk2hard
      The cop was clearly shooting at the tire and not the children. You say there is no reason to risk the lives of children EVER…by ANYONE. Wasn’t the mother risking her children’s lives by driving almost 100 mph, weaving in and out of traffic and going the wrong way down the street? If your are going to make that statement at least be a little consistent. The mom and son were arrested as it should be.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 21, 2013 @ 3:34 am

      Timdog
      I watched the video posted with this article and I could see the cop shooting at the back of the van. His sight picture wasn’t available for viewers to see and there is no way we can tell exactly what his sights were fixed on, but it is not clear that he is shooting at a tire, you can’t even see a tire from that angle, you can only see the area where you would think a tire would be. The fact is that he was firing at a van with seven children in it, and that is absolutely wrong. As far as me being a little bit consistent with my statement, how about reading all of my words so you can see the consistency? It’s all in the same language, English. If you can understand some of it you should be able to understand all of it. I tried to use small words so people like you wouldn’t be overwhelmed. (Oops, there was a big word, I hope it wasn’t too much for you). Read the second full sentence of my post. I’ll save you the trouble of looking for it, here it is, word for word: “They were BOTH wrong and should BOTH be punished severely.”
      Where is the inconsistency?
      If you fired a shot at a moving vehicle with children in it you know you’d be charged with every crime that the law could conceivably charge you with as well as several others that are thrown in for good measure. (And probably a few that are made up on the spot).
      Yes the mother was risking her children’s lives (as well as who knows how many other innocent people), that’s why I said she should be punished severely. That doesn’t make it OK for a cop to risk the children’s lives again, this time with bullets.
      “The mom and son were arrested as it should be.”
      I agree with you there but you seem to think that firing live ammo in the direction of 8 people who weren’t tried and sentenced to die, (6 of them innocent children who happen to be victims of circumstances), is acceptable behavior for a cop. A COP! A PUBLIC SERVANT! Someone who is sworn to uphold the law, willfully disregarding the lives and safety of innocent children! You remind me of the left wing loonies who say that only cops should have guns. This is exactly why that is so wrong. The only gun that cop should have is the one he was endangering those children with and it should be firmly inserted into his rectal cavity, with no lubrication. (After they pull his head out, if they can).
      Read my whole post again, decide exactly where my inconsistency is and reply again.
      I’ll graciously accept your apology when you realize that you made a fool of yourself by trying to argue a nonexistent point.
      THEY WERE BOTH WRONG AND SHOULD BOTH BE PUNISHED!
      The fact that she endangered so many lives doesn’t make it OK for a cop to endanger some of those lives again with his gun. That was just sheer stupidity. If you support or justify his actions you deserve all of the cops like that that you encounter. I personally want that type of person locked up before he gets anywhere near me or my family.
      (It’s a good thing they didn’t have a dog, the cop probably would have shot it right away).

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  18. timdogComment by timdog
    November 21, 2013 @ 8:51 am

    The inconsistency wasn’t in the words themselves but in the logic of your post genius. I understand your one sided post quite clearly. The inconsistency is when you go on a rant about the cop and say very little about the mother who initiated the whole incident. I’m not sure what happened to you in the past but it seems like you have some police officer issues. I don’t condone what the police officer did but your criticism seems to be out of balance as almost all of your post is focused on the police officer. This is where the inconsistency issue comes into play. The majority of the criticism should be focused on the mother who caused the whole incident with her erratic and irrational behavior. There will be no apology to someone like you who writes a ridiculous post and then gets upset when they don’t see the imbalance in their statements.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 21, 2013 @ 1:05 pm

      The logic of my post is that the kids were put into harm’s way twice. Both times by people who should know better, and they should both be punished. You’ve posted other comments that show you are sympathetic to the cop and want to forgive him for his idiotic act. Under no circumstances should a gun be fired in the direction of something that you do not want to destroy. If you can’t understand that I sincerely hope you don’t have access to a gun. A mother subjecting her own children to danger does not open the door for an imbecile cop to put the children in danger again. They were lucky enough to survive that far, why test their fate again? There is no excuse for that cop’s behavior. Maybe you’re racist and don’t value the lives of black children? (We saw that at least 2 occupants of the van were black, is that enough reason to presume that all occupants are targets for a racist cop?
      I’m not saying mom didn’t do wrong, nor that she didn’t escalate the situation, nor that she shouldn’t be punished. I am saying that the cop had no right to jeopardize the safety of the children any more that what had already been done.
      I know how devastating a gunshot wound can be, I know how unpredictable bullets can be. I grew up around guns, there are several competition shooters in my family, we have knowledge and respect for firearms AND life. I have nothing against cops, I do have something against idiots though. This cop is an idiot, plain and simple. He should not be a cop. I wouldn’t trust him to have enough common sense to safely walk a dog, I certainly don’t want to be forced to trust him with public safety and law enforcement.
      Look at the facts and stop trying to defend your brother in blue. If you defend this type of behavior you have no business being a cop either. Defending someone who is so clearly wrong makes you look just as bad. Step up and take your lumps. You supported reckless and dangerous behavior and you need to accept the fact that your position is wrong.
      Two wrongs don’t make a right, what he did was just as bad, (if not worse than), what mom did. He shouldn’t have done it and should be reprimanded, regardless of whether mom promised him a blow job and didn’t deliver or drove like a wild person endangering many people. The reason is irrelevant, anything she did, doesn’t justify someone else endangering the children again. PERIOD!

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  19. pistol packing mamaComment by txgoatlady
    November 21, 2013 @ 1:27 pm

    iwerk2hard, you might as well give up trying to convince the guy that the cop was in the wrong. He doesn’t want to hear it. My husband is a reserve Sheriff’s deputy and is a very fair and honest man. Neither he or I are deluded in believing that only fair, honest, reasonable people become policemen. Law enforcement also attracts people who are power-hungry bullies. He has especially seen that when he worked at the prison, mainly because most police departments try to weed those types out and the prisons are usually desperate enough to take just about anybody.

    There are plenty of good cops out there, but there are also some bad ones. They may be dishonest or just not very bright. Shooting out tires (or attempting to) is not very bright.

    As an example of both types, I was pulled over for speeding in an unfamiliar area of town a few weeks ago. I honestly did not know the speed limit and told the policeman as much. I was carrying my gun at the time, so I showed him my CCL along with my driver’s license. He asked if I was carrying. I told him I was. He asked if it was in the vehicle or on my person. I told him on my person. That was it. He didn’t ask me to get out of the vehicle or freak out that I was carrying. Nice guy.

    A friend of mine was pulled over for speeding in Oklahoma about a year ago. She was carrying a gun under the driver’s seat. When she informed the officer she was carrying (tiny little woman, BTW) he yelled at her to get out of the car. He patted her down, removed the cased gun from under the seat, placed it on the roof of the car and made her stand with her hands on the hood of the car while he drove away. Total jerk.

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    • iwerk2hardComment by iwerk2hard
      November 22, 2013 @ 2:35 am

      I was pretty sure before I started typing my first reply to him that I wouldn’t get through to him, he’s too fixated on defending the officer to understand what I said about mom being punished for her crimes AS WELL AS “officer Friendly” being punished for his crime. (Yes, I think firing at a van full of children should be treated and prosecuted as a serious crime, as in at least 7 counts of attempted murder and at least 7 counts of aggravated assault and at least 7 counts of reckless endangerment for starters). Idiots like that give all law enforcement a bad name. I have several friends, acquaintances and family members in law enforcement positions and have yet to hear one of them say anything positive about the way the shooting cop handled the situation.
      None of them agree with the position of timdog, that because ‘mom’ put the kids in harms way it’s now OK for the trigger happy cop to risk injury or death of the children. They’ve endured enough threat to their well being, put their safety ahead of the ego of the “Supercop”.
      Deal with mom as severely as needed, but that severity doesn’t need to be in the form of such stupidly reckless actions risking innocent people’s safety by a power hungry bully with a badge. If this one gets away with it others will surely think that the lack of reprimand is a sign that they may get away with stupid behavior themselves. (Not all cops will have that mindset, but that is a basic trait of human nature).
      With the ever quickening movement to socialism we will soon find ourselves living in a police state and those police will be trained to be more aggressive than the police of today. That being said, if a certain percent of police are out of line now, when that number is multiplied bay any factor the number of rogue cops will increase by the same factor if the percentage stays the same and if the training is to breed more aggressive enforcement you have to know the percentage will be even higher. This behavior needs to be put into check NOW!
      I don’t know if timdog is a bad cop defending one of his own or not. (I don’t even know if he is a cop). If he’s not a cop but a citizen willing to accept that a person’s children should be targeted for punishment (including serious injury or death) for the actions of someone else, he and others like him are a huge threat to our safety now and in the future.
      With a mother like that the kids are probably already living a nightmare like we can’t imagine, compound that by adding the trauma of being threatened with gunfire by an overly aggressive, under educated and untrained cop and they could have emotional problems for life (if they survive the ambush) that no professional could help them overcome.

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    • momma4285Comment by momma4285
      November 24, 2013 @ 3:45 pm

      Just gotta say, I’ve been following this debate between timdog and iwerk2hard since it started, and I have a few thoughts. First of all, hats off to you, iwerk2hard. In my original comment, I showed a lot of sympathy to the mother, however, after viewing multiple opinions, I believe mine may have been a bit narrow-minded. Truly, none of us have any idea of what the mother’s motivation may have been to drive away from the first traffic stop. The facts of the matter suggest she had illegal paraphanalia (just because a state allows for medical marijuana doesn’t mean that it is legal for an out of state driver to possess paraphernalia) and, since she was just passing through, probably wasn’t aware of the legal status of marijuana in that state anyway. Because it is classified as an illegal drug at a federal level, state marijuana laws are sketchy, at best. All of this suggests to me that maybe she was concerned about getting caught with the paraphernalia with her children in the car as well. Whatever the circumstance, mom was probably in the wrong. However, we should all be careful that our hearts aren’t so callous that we don’t see obvious injustices right before our eyes.

      That cop shooting at that car was a GROSS injustice. As I contemplated timdog’s responses, I could only come up with one question: Does timdog have children? I don’t just mean some vague interpretation of being a parent, like having a biological child you only see once or twice a month, but a young and innocent child that you have watched grow from a very young age, and are responsible for on a regular and daily basis. If timdog doesn’t have children, I completely understand his responses. There is a particular thought process that seems to change through the trials and joys of parenthood that no one should expect a non-parent to understand. They’re not puppies or kitties; they’re unique and separate human beings who dont deserve to be judged by anyone’s actions other than their own. As a parent, you learn that your child is such an incredible, unique individual. In fact, as a mom of 4 and homeschooling parent, one of my favorite things to do is watch how uniquely each of my children learn. They are born with their own personalities, they develop their own unique likes and dislikes, thoughts and quirks. Knowing that my children are so wonderfully unique, it’s easy to see that all children are wonderfully unique. With this perspective as a parent, it is no stretch of the imagination to see those children as unique citizens (independant of their mother or her actions) with their own rights, among them a right to protection. Another question to timdog: If those bullets, instead of ricocheting safely away, or into one of those innocent children, happened to, instead, hit the driver of the vehicle driving by, and that driver happened to be your mother or your wife, would you still be singing the same tune? By your reasoning, any innocent citizen between that over zealous cop and a criminal is fair game to mow down.

      Like another poster stated well, perspective is everything when you are trying to fairly consider a situation. I was told once, “Judging (as in ‘judge not, lest ye be judged’) is making a decision or determination without all of the facts. Good decision making is making a decision or determination only after fully knowing all the facts.” I, personally, don’t think this cop, as a professional or a human being, exhibited good decision making skills. If the cop had firearms training, I am sure he is well aware of the statistics concerning hit and miss ratio when using a handgun under pressure, and JUST AS aware how dangerous and real the threat of ricochet is when firing wildly with little aim or concentration. I’m also positive, as a legal motor vehicle operator, he is well aware that a gas tank, the most dangerous target on a vehicle, is commonly located in the rear of the vehicle near the back tires. I also believe (recalling the video from memory) that the shooting cop was one of the two who arrived as ‘back-up’. In viewing the situation from his perspective, I can easily see it would be a high-adrenaline situation. I mean, this guy gets a call to go, as back up, to a traffic stop in which the driver has already ‘fled’ once. From the perspective of a previous new Mexico resident, those kind of stops don’t happen too often out in the desert. It’s a bunch of small towns and long empty highways. It’s easy, again, to see how this cop may have been on his guard because of the unusual nature of the call. Then he drives up on a scene of woman-fleeing-cop-young-male-confronting-cop-who-already-has-taser-out-all-parties-back-in-the-vehicle-with-the-cop-locked-out-quickly-losing-control-of-the-situation. So, he and his partner quickly jump out of their improperly, but hastily, maneuvered car to try to help officer #1 try to regain control of the situation. At one point all 3 officers surrounded the vehicle full of screaming children, so there is absolutely no way he didn’t know children were involved… Right before she hit the gas, and he withdrew his firearm and started shooting in the general direction of 1 assailant and a car full of innocent bystanders. At this point in the story, we can only speculate at what was possibly going through his mind. It could have been anything, from a small town cop’s excitement to a bumbling Barney fife trying to show some initiative and machismo, to a man who actually believed he was doing something heroic, dispite the fact that every odd was in favor of him being more distructive than helpful. One way or another, these are not the type of decision making skills, especially under pressure, that I’d ever allow around my children, whether it be a private citizen, preacher, teacher, or officer of the law. That type of person, whomever it may be, shouldn’t be in charge of protecting lives if they are so willing to disregard how precious life is. By discharging his weapon without being sure where the bullets would hit or ricochet, that officer put EVERY life at risk – not only the children, but his fellow officers and other drivers.

      At this point, the only fair thing to do is to decide whether the outcome justified the risk. If he had hit one of the kids, it would be an obvious no. From the perspective of a parent who has lost a child… You can wish and hope and cry, but nothing you do will give you even one more precious second with them if they’re dead. If the cop had actually hit the tires, he probably would have been a hero among his peers and in general. (My opinion, however, wouldn’t change. Any idiot who opens fire in the direction of children doesn’t deserve a gun.) Thank God the outcome was safely somewhere between the two. He sure isn’t a hero, but atleast he didn’t maim or kill any of the children or any of the passers-by. But the outcome didn’t justify the risk because the only thing this cop contributed to the situation was danger not only for the assailant, but for the children (think of them as hostages if you must), the passers-by, and the other officers involved, as well. This man, law officer or not, endangered the lives of everyone around him by withdrawing his firearm in a high pressure situation and making the decision to discharge it without being absolutely sure of hitting his target, which was situated between multiple officers and civilians… Right, wrong, or indifferent, the cop does not display good decision making skills and should probably be removed from a position capable of carrying something as potentially dangerous as a fire arm.

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  20. timdogComment by timdog
    November 21, 2013 @ 1:29 pm

    By your logic I could accuse you of being a cop hater and that is why you are being so hard on the cop. I don’t care of the sex or color of the person who breaks the law. Justice is supposed to be blind remember? I consider myself to be pro law and order. What the cop did should be reviewed and he should be punished accordingly if he is found to have broken the police rules and guidelines. Just seems to me you gloss over the mom’s behavior and focus almost exclusively on the cop.

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    • mvotano58Comment by mvotano58
      November 21, 2013 @ 3:00 pm

      Yes that is all anyone seems to focus on….what about the grown kid who exited the vehicle from the passenger side. I considered his actions to be aggressive. What if he had been armed.

      And the kids behavior is horrible. Had I acted like that when one of my parents got pulled over well lets just say there would be hell to pay once that cop pulled away.

      People act as if because she had a van full of kids that she is somehow squeaky clean and would never commit a crime with her kids in tow. Yeah right that happens sure. Anyone with a brain knows you don’t speed your van when heading to or from Mexico.

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  21. leadfoot320Comment by leadfoot320
    November 21, 2013 @ 2:27 pm

    TXGOATLADY;
    I AGREE ALL THE WAY! I KNOW MANY GREAT POLICE OFFICERS! I ALSO KNOW SOME OF THE JERKS! THE ONES AT THIS STOP WERE OF THE SECOND VERITY! SHOOTING AT THE TIRES? I WOULDN’T TRY THAT WITHOUT A SNIPER RIFLE IF THEN! (KIDS)KEYSTONE COPS ON CRACK! THE FIRST TIME SHE LEFT, I DON’T KNOW. THE SECOND TIME SHE WAS RUNNING FOR HER LIFE!
    SHE WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, NO ONE AROUND,(NO CARS BEHIND 2ND CAR BLOCKING THE ROAD (WHY DIDN’T HE BLOCK HER IN?)
    SHE WAS SCARED, BLACK, FROM A SOUTHERN STATE,thy had grabbed, were going to handcuff her, smashed her window, shot at her, with no one TO SAY WHAT HAPPENED EXCEPT COPS! (THE BLUE LINE) SHE RAN FOR TOWN WHERE THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE! THEN SHE STOPPED! WAS SHE WRONG? PROBABLY. (MAYBE SHE HEARD ABOUT THE 14 HR CAVITY SEARCH FOR ROLLING A STOP IN N.M.!)BUT LETS FACE IT, A 6 YR OLD, FACE DOWN IN THE DIRT IS A LITTLE OVER THE TOP! AND 2 PIPES THAT COULD BE USED FOR GRASS?
    I AM PRO LAW ENFORCEMENT! ANTI KEYSTONE COPS! AND WHEN YOU NEED HELP NOW, THE POLICE ARE JUST 30 MIN. AWAY!
    I’M TOO OLD TO FIGHT, TOO SLOW TO RUN, SO I CARRY! (LEGALLY)

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    • timdogComment by timdog
      November 22, 2013 @ 11:00 am

      Was she wrong? Probably. Is that a joke? And then you claim to be pro law enforcement. You also state that there was no one to state what happened except the cops. No one around? You can see cars going by on the road in the video. Quit making excuses for the mom’s horrific actions. Oh but she was scared and black so I guess that makes her actions okay. The lengths that people go to excuse abhorrent behavior astound me. No more personal responsibility I guess. The cop was wrong but that doesn’t excuse the mom’s actions which you gloss over.

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  22. mvotano58Comment by mvotano58
    November 21, 2013 @ 2:53 pm

    Everyone in this was wrong from the woman driving, her kids exiting the vehicle all the way down to the cops that shot at her vehicle.

    When the cops pull you over you are better off to just “yes sir no sir” them to death. Teach your children to respect law enforcement and maybe nonsense like this wouldn’t happen. Remain calm and cool.

    There are 10s of thousands of LEOs in this country and the vast majority of them don’t go off half cocked looking for a fight. Always remain calm, respectful and cooperative and the worst that will happen, unless you act like a fool or have warrants….yeah you will drive off with a piece of paper that guarantees you will have your day in court.

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  23. timdogComment by timdog
    November 22, 2013 @ 10:51 am

    iwerk2hard
    You’re working too hard on your criticism of the cop. “Trigger happy, supercop, power hungry bully with a badge, overly aggressive under educated and untrained cop” is your description for the officer all from this short video. He should be charged with 7 counts of attempted murder, 7 counts of aggravated assault, and 7 counts of reckless endangerment for starters? Why not just give him the death penalty? So I am biased for the police according to you but you’re not biased against law enforcement? Finally the kids were not targeted like you falsely stated and this was not an ambush. Maybe you can’t convince me you’re right since you’re entire argument is so way over the top. I believe people like you who focus on the police and not the circumstances leading up to the incident are a threat to law and order.

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