Last Updated:October 23 @ 12:32 pm

ACLU forces removal of portrait of Jesus Christ

By Portsmouth Daily Times, The (OH)

Jackson City Schools has agreed to settle a lawsuit brought on the by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and The Freedom From Religion Foundation for hanging a portrait of Jesus on school property.

According to the Associated Press, terms of the settlement include the district permanently removing the portrait and paying the organization damages and legal fees totaling nearly six figures.

"Jackson (City Schools) had been maintaining and displaying a portrait of Jesus in public schools for several years. The Freedom From Religion Foundation and the ACLU both sent a letter to Jackson schools requesting they remove the portrait because in was, in our opinion, clearly a first amendment violation of the establishment clause," said James Hardiman, legal director for the ACLU of Ohio. "The superintendent issued some statements that he would not take the portrait down absent of court order. Following that statement, we filed a lawsuit."

Hardiman said as the lawsuit was going though the court system, the portrait was removed from the middle school where it had hung for a number of years and placed in the high school.

"At that point we filed a motion for a temporary restraining order, restraining them (Jackson City Schools) from continuing to violate the first amendment against the establishment of religion," Hardiman said.

He said there was a hearing scheduled on the temporary restraining order before United States District Judge for the Southern District of Ohio Algenon Marbley.

"At the hearing we reached an agreement that they (Jackson City Schools) would no longer maintain or display the portrait," Hardiman said. "However, on the National Day of Prayer, we learned thy had displayed the portrait. There was a picture that appeared in which the principal was seen holding hands praying around the flagpole with the portrait prominently displayed."

Hardiman said at that point the ACLU and The Freedom From Religion Foundation filed contempt charges against the school.

"We had a hearing before the magistrate on the issue if they were in contempt," Hardiman said.

He said an agreement was reached between the parties at the hearing.

"We finally got an agreement that they would do four things, permanently remove the portrait, they would be enjoined from maintaining or displaying the portrait, they would agree to permanently maintain the anonymity of the plaintiffs and pay attorney fees and damages."

He said that agreement was reached nearly three months ago.

Hardiman said the court recently approved the settlement agreement and consent decree. He said on that basis the lawsuit was dropped.

"We were kind of disappointed because we don't like to take money from school districts even though this was insurance money. By the same token we felt the school district had an obligation to comply with the law," Hardiman said.

When asked if this lawsuit sent a message to other schools districts, Hardiman said, "Hopefully other schools won't be inclined to violate the constitution and hopefully Jackson (City Schools) will move on from this, recognizing the obvious that they should not support religion in any way, shape or form."

Hardiman said he hopes that other school districts will take this issue seriously.

"There is a reason the establishment clause prohibits the establishment of religion. We happen to be, by-in-large, a Christian country, but by the same token we have to recognize there are other religions." Hardiman said. "We have to respect those other religions and we can not permit the state to become involved in establishing a preferred religion and if nothing else I hope that's what come out of this litigation," Hardiman said.

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(c)2013 The Portsmouth Daily Times (Portsmouth, Ohio)

Visit The Portsmouth Daily Times (Portsmouth, Ohio) at www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com

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43 Comments

  1. Scruffy-USN-RetiredComment by kerryp
    October 8, 2013 @ 6:50 am

    If the court is going to go by the letter of the law, than I would say for the ACLU to prove without a shadow of doubt that the picture was that of Jesus Christ. Since there are no true pictures of Jesus Christ than it is but an artist’s perception. Therefore it is but a piece of art. It is up to the individual’s subjective interpretation of that art to assign a personal value.

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    • 1american1stComment by 1american1st
      October 8, 2013 @ 12:45 pm

      Good post!

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    • Ben_ColderComment by Ben_Colder
      October 8, 2013 @ 2:07 pm

      You beat me to it kerryp. It’s nothing more than an artist perception just like the Pilgrims on the Thanksgiving painting.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 8, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

      Think about you said then in place of Jesus put Satan, Star of David, hang a cross upside down, or Islams writing for Allah or any other synbol..there is a place for religion and schools are not the place.. if they are to have a prayer day then everyone should join in a prayer of all religions of students of different faiths this way people learn the others and respect them, not just christian.. now lets face west get down on our knees and chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.. I am catholic, I attended a Buddhism prayer meeting when I was 17, tricked by a stranger, real hot looking woman whom said, do you want to do something that is fun, I was thinking sex as with the other 2 friends I was with, got to her apartment and it was the meeting..I learned something that night a different religion, it did not change my religion or faith.. 45 years later corrupt churches, pediphile priests did that. I think back to that meeting when I was 17, it brings joy to me for some reason, even though I dont practice Buddism, I find it odd but it does give me peace..

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    • kandeeComment by kandee
      October 8, 2013 @ 5:53 pm

      Agree! The “Anti-Christian Litigation Union” should find better ways to waste the courts time.

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    • bowler1hatComment by bowler1hat
      October 8, 2013 @ 10:02 pm

      Deckape, it is my medical opinion that you need help.

      A portrait of Jesus would not have the likeness of an Angelo-Saxon or other European, so KerryP is absolutely right! We don’t know where the “traditional” likeness comes from.

      The Mona Lisa and the likeness of its painter, Leonardo da Vinci can be overlaid with each other and match the basic facial features. Who is to say that the “painters” of portraits of Jesus, just found someone who looked peaceful and regal? Perhaps it comes from someone who imagined that likeness or was a little vain about his appearance or received an inspiration over a bottle of wine or over a simple, humble prayer.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 8, 2013 @ 10:32 pm

      I didnt know you were a medical doctor or I would have asked for advice,in religion.. since you are a doctor and I assume you have studied some anthropolgy.. from my studies Jesus would have a look of an Arab, since he was of Hebrew origin.. the bible and religious paintings were to represent a peaceful nature, whereas the bible contradicts itself. I look at as a book of evil. posting a picture of a religious symbol in a school is wrong in every possible way a person thinks.. if you think I’m wrong then you are no better than Islam killing in the name of god, forcing the beliefs on people.

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    • juanitagilboComment by juanitagilbo
      October 9, 2013 @ 4:11 pm

      No sir, the BIBLE does not contradict itself. Obviously you have not read the Bible very well if you think it contradicts itself. There is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. And He does not advocate “religion,” as such. There are many manmade religions. They will not take one to Heaven. Only through the blood of Jesus Christ will one get to Heaven. The so called wars that were done in His Name were not approved by Him, only those wiping out evil. I have walked with my Savior nigh onto 71 years and He has never disappointed me. He has always been there for me. Most everyday He sends me miracles. I do know that He has ALL the correct answers. If mankind would let Him, He will solve all their problems. They would be truly happy. As I said earlier there are no contradictions in His Holy Word. As I daily read His Word and spend time with Him I find how true His Word is, and everyday He gives me new revelations. If you ever really tried His Way you would see how RIGHT He is.

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    • standingwithhimComment by standingwithhim
      October 16, 2013 @ 4:14 am

      What you say is true, however, much of the blame rests with the schools. They must know the painting they have is in no way one of Jesus. However, getting into a lawsuit with the ACLU all but admits they are claiming the painting to be in fact one of Jesus. The schools must maintain a record of the artist, and most importantly that of the model, therein they have legal proof the painting is by “Bob The Artist” and the model is of “Steve A. Model” Then merely claim it was a donated painting by a former illustrius former student. Thereby giving the ACLU no legal standing, and the court would have no choice but to dismiss the lawsuit as frivolous.
      It is also important that we not accept the decades old liberals interpretation of the first ammendment, that of which they claim the constitutionality of seperation of church and state, that is NOT what it says, nor is that a commom-sense interpretation thereof. The opposite is quite true..”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances” make no law, and prohibit the free exercise thereof” Pretty clear to me, EVERY law appeals courts have made that restricts our “exercise thereof” is in fact itself unconstitutional, now we need christians to put away their fears of these courts and stand up for the truth. Stop allowing Satan’s legal arm, the ACLU, from controlling most of what we do or don’t do, that is according to the ACLU. Know the true law, and keep the ACLU out of court with frivolous lawsuits. Come on people use that backbone God created you with, and put it to good use, rid ourselve of that evil ACLU. Put up hundres of paintings of mosels that have long hair, but NEVER say it is of Jesus, it”s that simple.

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  2. inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
    October 8, 2013 @ 9:17 am

    Just what is it that these corrupt bought and paid for Judges do not understand about the first Ammendment that states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF” Posting a picture of Jesus for historical purposes to reflect the Judeo Christian founding values IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF! The basic requirement of a free thinking people is the right to think free and express those thoughts and beliefs and inculcate those that work into society so society works. Thanks to the silencers of our truths our society NO LONGER WORKS. We used to follow these tenets the society DID work. Then we got infested with the social parasites who seek to control our minds as they seek to control our wealth, who soon realized that when individuals become free thinkers they no longer follow in lock step the socialist COLLECTIVE agenda of mind imprisonment where dissenting tongues have to be silenced to keep the very lies alive that destroy individual success. What they won’t tell you is this;
    Jesus never said “I have come to bring you a religion”,,, he said “I have come to testify to the truth.” The truth that sets men free which the Secular liberal fears the most because it stands in the way of their lies and deceptions used to enthrall us to their government whom they worship. So they MUST assualt and drive those truths out or perish. Enter the biggest lying boondoggle EVER perpetrated upon a free People,,,,enter Obamacare, whose premise of deception and prevarication are now becoming evident even to the most dumbed-down Democrat extremist whose leaders are beginning to understand when the truth of it and it’s incompetency and deception is exposed, will lead to their party’s destruction, despite what they tell you about so-called rebellious truth seeking Conservatives who in the short term will stir the pot to clear the deceptions within their own ranks before they march forward united in those truths, and dethrone the party of internal immoral and mental bestiality, i.e. the beast within that can only succeed in deceiving himself.

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    • ricardosuarezComment by ricardosuarez
      October 8, 2013 @ 2:36 pm

      The Lord is my shepherd and I shall not want…………..This is you my friend calling yourself a sheep and being too stupid to realize it.Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhh,Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

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    • jagansComment by jagans
      October 9, 2013 @ 11:07 am

      It always amazes me how humans always need things to be literal, and something that one of their senses can hear, see, touch or smell. We, as humans have lost our ability to “Feel” what is right or wrong. Most of us have religion of one type or another, depending on where you happen to be from, shoved down our collective throats from the day we are born to the day we die to keep us under the thumb of the powers that be.

      For anyone to come on one of these forums and actually put in quotes what Jesus of Nazareth said, when we not only do not know anything that Jesus said, or even if there WAS a Jesus of Nazareth, is arrogance, and ignorance of the first degree.

      The bottom line is that a public school, which is attended by students of many different religions, has NO BUSINESS displaying a likeness of a supposed deity of any type. If the principal or superintendent or whatever he/she is wants to do this in a school which is of, and paid for by a specific religion, fine, just do not do it in a public school which is paid for by taxes paid by the multi-denominational public.

      It amazes me how backward some administrators are. Now before all you bible bangers start yelling, lets put on another pair of moccasins.

      Say the superintendent of schools is Muslim, and he decides to display a big likeness of Muhammad in every school in his district. What do you think the reaction of the Christians in the district would be?

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    • mredComment by mred
      October 9, 2013 @ 2:11 pm

      jagans

      Well, let me ask you this. Atheism is a religion, so how is it that you can demand that we abide by your religion and we can’t have ours?

      First of all, schools were to use the Bible to teach from when this nation first started and the collages were started by churches. Most all of them teach religion to some degree and everything is fine. Along comes some idiot that decides we can no longer even show a picture of the 10 commandments and if we do, you can take us to court and make us remove it because of a phrase that is no where to be found in the constitution. You take that statement totally out of context and then try and pass it off as in the constitution. Well, it is not in there and that phrase you try so hard to defend means something entirely different then what you have perverted to mean.

      The constitution, for those that care to read it and find out what it really means, says that “CONGRESS” shall make no laws. It says NOTHING about the states making laws that advance one religion over another and they often did and do. It is perfectly legal for them to do that, but not for the federal government to do it.

      What they were referring to was the old practice of making everyone pay a tithe to the established religion, such as the Church of England. Even if you did not belong to this church, you still are required to tithe to it and they even told you how much it had to be.

      “For anyone to come on one of these forums and actually put in quotes what Jesus of Nazareth said, when we not only do not know anything that Jesus said, or even if there WAS a Jesus of Nazareth, is arrogance, and ignorance of the first degree.” Here you go again showing your ignorance of religion again. What do you think the Bible is, just a nice little book that someone wrote to make themselves feel good? I guess in your case, that may be true, but for most people, the Bible is the word of GOD written down by his disciples and passed down to us. Now you are perfectly free to not believe anything about religion and you are free to practice any religion you feel meets your needs, but don’t come on here telling someone else that they have to believe like you do and forcing anyone to take down the 10 commandments is doing the same thing.

      According to you, the Muslems have no right to worship their GOD, so go to Detroit and tell them to knock it off with their call to prayer 5 times a day and that they are not allowed to worship as they see fit because according to you, GOD does not exist. If you try your stupidity on Muslems, I think your life expectancy would be about 5 minuets before they took your head off. At least Christians do not take your head off for not believing like they do. Why is it that showing the 10 commandments hurts you so much? Is it because deep down you know they are right and you don’t want to be reminded of your stupidity all the time?? Just because you don’t believe does not give you the right to tell me or anyone else how and what to believe. I have every right to display the 10 commandments anywhere I feel like it and that is according to the constitution that you so willingly shove in my face. Try reading that again and tell me where you have the right to stop anyone from displaying the 10 commandments anywhere they feel like.

      Just because the Progressives back you does not make it right or according to the constitution. If you really knew what they were up to you would be out there right along with us demanding that they stop this right now and allow them to be displayed, but then you aren’t bright enough to know what is going on are you????

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    • juanitagilboComment by juanitagilbo
      October 9, 2013 @ 3:30 pm

      It appears today that if you are a true Christian you are the only one who has no rights. Those who are against God and Christianity think they are the only ones who can say and do what they want. If I were in charge of the school, I would put pictures of Jesus in every classroom and every hall and the office too. He is the one that this country was founded on. No one that is of Satan is going to tell me what I can and can’t do.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 9, 2013 @ 3:52 pm

      Mred, may I suggest you look up the definition of Religion. even though a federal appeals court ruling(liberal), ruled it, because prison officials violated a prisoners rights not treating Atheism as a religion… If I was the ruling judge, I would have looked up the definition and ruled on that.

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  3. thunder69erComment by thunder69er
    October 8, 2013 @ 10:04 am

    I would like to know what “damages” the ACLU and Freedom From Religion suffered. This is just another way these two groups are extorting money from governmental agencies. Seeing that they don’t want God mentioned anywhere in our society they should not accept any US currency because In God We Trust is printed on all of it. Bunch of hypocrites!

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    • inluminatuoComment by inluminatuo
      October 8, 2013 @ 10:43 am

      The only damages incurred were to the suffering American people who had their free speech rights silenced,,,the ACLU and the Secular Liberal Judge who got his kickback under the table suffered not at all. You just got community organized, Chicago style, and one more oxymoronic Liberal re-defintion of the word “Contempt of Court”

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    • juanitagilboComment by juanitagilbo
      October 9, 2013 @ 3:41 pm

      If nothing else but that Jesus is a historical figure as are presidents and inventors His picture should be displayed for that reason and because He has influenced this culture so greatly for GOOD. Religion did not make this country, Christianity did. There is a difference whether the liberals realize it or not. God does not approve of man made religions. They do not glorify God.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 9, 2013 @ 4:01 pm

      juanitgilbo, all religions are man made, christianity just didnt pop up out the air.. your right about hanging Jesus in schools as a historical figure, beings all schools hang a picture of satan so to speak

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  4. mikeyparksComment by mikeyparks
    October 8, 2013 @ 10:50 am

    I don’t know what makes the atheists so hateful. Aside from a flimsy principle, it’s no skin off of their nose. You notice part of the settlement is that the plaintiffs remain anonymous. Pretty cowardly.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 8, 2013 @ 5:44 pm

      chances are it is someone attending school or it could be a teacher.. my suggestion let there be christain, satanic, muslim, hebrew, hinduism and buddism prayer in schools..

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  5. oldsaltydawgComment by oldsaltydawg
    October 8, 2013 @ 10:53 am

    Those in the groups that sued should be tried for and convicted of Perjury which they are committing by asking for damages and for saying they do not like to take money from schools. The only one hurt by this act of UTTER STUPIDITY are the students and the tax payers. NONE of those suing had anything to do with the school or even the city of Jackson I know because I live near there. Now they will be STEALING from the people of that city and the children of that city. Worse yet they are taking a very important thing form those children that being the knowledge of CHRIST. Sadly Americans are letting that very and vastly important item striped for their lives and it will come back to haunt those IDIOTS who are harming these children to push their IGNORANCE on to America. GOD will and does have a special place in the Lake of Fire reserved for all who would harm a child in anyway and if it causes that child to be cast into that Lake then He will ensure they pay for that vile crime. So these IDIOTS need to be shut down and they also need to be told to SHUT the H*** Up. Forgive me LORD but IDIOTS like these make me angry to no end.

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    • juanitagilboComment by juanitagilbo
      October 9, 2013 @ 3:48 pm

      Just live like Christ wants us to live and pray for the lost. The Bible tells us to not fret over evildoers. They will get what is coming to them because they have chosen wrong. God does not want any to be lost, but if they choose that route it is their fault, not yours or mine or God’s.

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  6. solutionsComment by solutions
    October 8, 2013 @ 12:48 pm

    Since I am all too familiar with the tactics of the ACLU and worse, the FFRF, perhaps someone can fill me in on exactly what ‘damage’ was done to them by the school.

    How can a picture with historical significance be included in an historical display for 66-years be interpreted as state advocating a particular religion? Only libtools with an agenda can create madness out of nothing.

    Once again, the FFRF will boast that they “won” but only through intimidation and without adjudication…in the end, they ‘won’ nothing except more negative publicity. For those of you fools who actually believe these people are upholding the Constitution, I feel sorry for you; then I laugh at your ignorance; then I get PO’d at your stupidity.

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  7. giant33Comment by giant33
    October 8, 2013 @ 1:01 pm

    Christens better start acting more like Muslims in these kind of issues. We can’t win in the courts. Someone has to pay dearly for these law suits. Christens stop bending over and grabbing your ankles. Are their any Christen men left willing to fight for God? God help us.

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    • jagansComment by jagans
      October 9, 2013 @ 3:56 pm

      No but there might be some Christian men, and I bet there are even some that are literate.

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    • juanitagilboComment by juanitagilbo
      October 9, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

      There are many, many true Christians left who will not bow their knee to the false gods and false religions of this world and regardless how this world thinks or acts, we with God are the final victors in this battle against sin and Satan. That can not and will not be changed. Hallelujah!

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  8. 1american1stComment by 1american1st
    October 8, 2013 @ 1:03 pm

    How can a handful of Athiests & low-life lawyers override the beliefs of millions & millions of Americans?

    And American citizens actually give money to these scumbags!

    Our founding fathers never envisioned that so few could destroy so much by misinterpreting the Constitution.

    The ACLU is the same group of lawyers making money from our government while defending the parasites, I mean terrorists, in Gitmo.

    The ACLU is the same group of lawyers that sued our government for the “Rights of the Mentally Ill” & got most of them released from mental institutions.

    The problem with releasing all those mentally ill folks is that they couldn’t take care of themselves (that’s WHY they were in institutions!), so a lot of them were turned out to live on the streets. They died of dehydration, starvation, froze to death, were beaten & robbed of their medicine & a lot of them were murdered by criminals.

    Then there were the psychotic, bipolar and/or schizophrenics that killed normal people because they didn’t stay on their medication.

    Wonder how many people have died as a direct result of the ACLU’s bogus lawsuits?

    The acronym for ACLU should be ANTI-American Civil Liberties Union.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 9, 2013 @ 1:59 pm

      what makes you think it is an athiest that filed the suit, could have Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or a Buddhist.. to claim it was an Athiest is in violation of you christian belief of judging people, you have committed a sin. go say 3 Hail Marys and 4 Our Fathers.

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  9. GACComment by GAC
    October 8, 2013 @ 2:16 pm

    A much simpler solution would be to hang portraits of other Religious (for lack of a better phrase)Icons. Put up portraits of Mohamed for Islam, Buddha, Ganesha for Hindu, an Earth Goddess for Wicca, Etc., and God Forbid we leave out the religion of Atheism a portrait of Charles Darwin.
    Just let the idiot ***** at the FFRF and ACLU argue against that display as an establishment clause violation. Maybe a case like that would awaken the sleeping majority to the idiocy of those groups.

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    • grameComment by grame
      October 8, 2013 @ 2:32 pm

      A picture of Darwin? He was a late-comer to Atheism. I would suggest a blank piece of paper framed.

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    • 1american1stComment by 1american1st
      October 9, 2013 @ 1:48 am

      Wouldn’t need to hang pictures of Muslims. That is not a religion, but rather a cult. It would be like hanging a picture of Jim Jones or Charles Manson.

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    • deckapeComment by deckape
      October 9, 2013 @ 12:17 pm

      muslim is not a religion it is a follower of Islam…

      as for cults..here are 3 definitions and 1 explaination of cult taken from different sources..

      1. a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents.

      2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers.

      3. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. i.e. crosses, pentagrams, star of David, Buddah and rosary beads.

      Islam does not use a sacred symbol but a writing that says Allah..

      4. The term ‘cult’ was originally used to describe a group of people who worshiped a deity. The term was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a deity and borrowed via the French ‘culte’ from Latin ‘cultus’ “worship”, from the adjective ‘cultus’ “inhabited, cultivated, worshiped”, derived from the verb ‘colere’ “care, cultivate.”[1]

      In the 1930s cults became the object of sociological study in the context of the study of religious behavior.[2] They have been criticized by mainstream Christians for their unorthodox beliefs. In the 1970s the anticult movement arose, partly motivated by acts of violence and other crimes committed by members of some cults. Some of the claims of the anti-cult movement have been disputed by other scholars, leading to further controversies.

      In current usage, the term ‘cult’ usually means “a deviant religious organization with novel beliefs and practices,”[3] but often without a clear or consistent definition.[4][5]

      so, the definition of cult would also include christians..

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  10. roystoll2Comment by roystoll2
    October 8, 2013 @ 3:41 pm

    You are absolutely right. How can this ACLU make anybody take down a cross or any portrait if they follow the Constitution. “Congress Shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” This is typical communist Markist banning of religion by misreading the Constitution. The way thea I read it it means hands off religion, for or against. In other words you can’t start it or stop it by any law. We have been had by these rulings.

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  11. davebnmComment by davebnm
    October 8, 2013 @ 4:09 pm

    They are establishing Christianity in the school. If you are going to put Jesus Christ up there, then muslims will ask to put up mo-HAM-Med and so on.
    I’ll get a lot of thumbs down on this but I don’t care, because The moos*lims are doing the same thing to Christians in the middle east. Include all, or include none.

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    • FlyboyComment by Flyboy
      October 8, 2013 @ 8:38 pm

      Hi davebnm. Read my comment below. The “Establishment Clause” in the constitution isn’t what you’ve been led to believe it is.

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    • FlyboyComment by Flyboy
      October 8, 2013 @ 10:24 pm

      davebnm. How you can hold the position you hold is beyond me. Despite the examples of history, especially our own history, you can actually believe that the ACLU has the best interests of the constitution of these United States at heart? If you don’t consider the historical context in which things happened, and their impact on our new nation, you have no context at all, which is what the humanists and liberals in this country want. That way, with no context, they can interpret it in any way they want to promote their world view. And there are plenty of uniformed, under informed, mis informed and disinformed dupes out there who will believe it. There’s the rub. Most people don’t know the historical context in which this greatest of all nations in mankinds history was forged. Our founding fathers were not stupid, narrow minded, biggoted religious zealots who sought to create a theocracy. In fact George Washington said as much.

      However he also said that “it is impossible to rightly govern without God and the Bible.” A free people, who are to stay free throughout all the generations of their posterity, must be a MORAL people. As Benjamin Franklin said, “this form of government is wholly unsuited to the governance of any other.”

      Do you think that for them it would have created a controversy for a copy of the ten commandments to be placed in a county courthouse? Of course not. You say you don’t want to be bothered with religion in public. If you want to worship your god you’ll go to your church. Well you may not have that right much longer either. Your beloved ACLU sued a school district here in Texas over it’s bus routes.

      Yes, that’s right. You know why? Because the routes took the buses filled with impressionable children past too many Church buildings where they could possibly be exposed to that ultimate symbol of hatred and bigotry…..the cross. The day is coming when people of faith won’t be allowed to attend church. It will be criminalized as seditious and treasoness behavior. Where will you then go to worship your god? Notice how closely the ACLU and the freedom from religion society work together? I didn’t say “Freedom OF Religion” society, I said the “Freedom FROM Religion” society.

      You can’t honestly believe that that is what our founding fathers had in mind. Let’s take the whole “Establishment Clause” in context shall we? “The government shall pass no laws regarding the establishment of religion……..OR THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.”

      Now comparing me, or any other person out there who may hold similar views to the TALIBAN, as you did in your comment is absolutely ridiculous! Worship my god or I’ll kill you? Hardly. I guess you’ll be leading the way when public worship is outlawed, whether it be in a Church building, or in a city park saying “Worship ANY God and we’ll kill you.” Any God other than the state. And believe me, the humanists of this age will eventually come to the irrefutable truth that humans are spiritual beings. So let’s give them a religious institution where they can exercise that “instinct.” We’ll create a State Church. How’s that for UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

      We’re not threatening anyone with violence. We’re not threatening to kill anyone. We’re only vigorously defending our rights under the Constitution, which was established to preserve our GOD given, natural rights, among which are freedom of religion.

      To say that religious activity should be confined to the 4 walls of a Church or Synagogue, or Mosque or any other house of worship is again an infringement of religious liberty. How magnanimous of you, to provide us with certain places in which religious activity can be participated in. That sounds like colleges and universities establishing “free speech” zones on their campuses.

      I’ve always been under the impression that in this “FREE COUNTRY” where we enjoy “FREEDOM OF SPEECH” that any place, anywhere is a free speech zone. Think about what you’re tacitly, at least at this point, supporting. Limit speech, limit religious expression, limit our right to freedom of assembly and association, limit our rights to protect ourselves……….etc, etc,etc. Where does it end davebnm? No freedom, no rights. We’ve all just found ourselves under tyranny.

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  12. FlyboyComment by Flyboy
    October 8, 2013 @ 8:35 pm

    It’s too bad that the ACLU doesn’t correctly interpret the “Establishment” clause on which it continuously hangs it’s proverbial hat. The “Establishment Clause” in our Constitution is there to prevent the state from “Establishing a State religion.” We were in conflict with the power of England in the time of the revolution. The reason many of the Pilgrims and puritans setteled in the new world was to escape religious persecution. They were at odds with the Church of England. To be at odds with the Church of England was to be at odds with the King of England since the King was the head of the Church. Our founders sought to avoid that problem by declaring that the United States of America would not have a State Religion. This in no wise means that public expression of religious beliefs is banned in, on or around “Public, tax payer funded” property. Whether that be in a county courthouse displaying a copy of the ten commandments, or a junior high school having a picture of Jesus. They twist the “Establishment clause” to justify religious suppression and oppression. I wish the ACLU were as vigorous a watch dog for the actions of the Obama administration when it comes to the many violations of the Constitution that it has perpetrated in the last 5 years.

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    • davebnmComment by davebnm
      October 8, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

      Sorry dude, just because you interpret “your way” doesn’t make it so. If I want to worship my deity, I will go into a church of my choice. I do not want religion forced on me in public, taxpayer places. That’s what the Separation means.

      “Worship my God or I’ll kill you!” is what the taliban do.

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    • cxComment by genesal
      October 8, 2013 @ 11:22 pm

      Actually there were State Religions after the forming of the Union. The clause only prohibits CONGRESS from establishment etc.

      http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html

      In the end, the 1st Amendment not only prevents the establishment of a national religion, but it also prohibits government aid to any religion, even on an non-preferential basis, as well as protecting the right of the individual to choose to worship, or not, as he or she sees fit.
      The Bill of Rights, however, had no effect on how a state treated its churches. Unlike today, the Bill of Rights applied only to the rules and laws of the federal government. The states were still free to establish churches, to direct church taxes be paid, and to even require attendance in church, all within the bounds of the state’s own constitution. As noted, many did. While the “free exercise” clause is undoubtedly referring to an individual right, the “establishment” clause refers to a state power. This clause not only prohibited the federal government from establishing a national religion, it prevented the federal government from forcing a state to disestablish any state religion.

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    • mredComment by mred
      October 9, 2013 @ 2:47 pm

      genesal

      I couldn’t have said it better, except for one thing. The establishment of a church was like the Church of England and the people that did not belong to this church had to tithe to it anyway. Even though the people came here to get away from that kind of treatment, it still caught up with them. The King decided he wanted his church established here and that everyone would tithe to it regardless of what church they belonged to. That is what this amendment is all about. It stops the federal government from establishing a national church just like the Church of England where everyone had to tithe to it no matter what.

      I don’t want to start an entire history lesson here, but the statement of “Separation of Church and State” is taken out of context and is not even in the constitution. I know there are a lot of people that think it is, but if they have put it in there, I sure would like to know where, since I have read the entire constitution and can not find it anywhere. I did find it in a letter, but then that has nothing to do with the constitution and has no weight of law applied to it. If you read that letter, you will find that it does not mean what you think it means.

      I think it is time the American people learned just what our constitution does say and what it means and doesn’t mean. Until then, we are going to be going down these side roads and letting a few people run all over us because we don’t know what we are talking about. Granted, there are a few, but everyone should know, not just a few.

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  13. thomasjeffersonComment by thomasjefferson
    October 8, 2013 @ 8:56 pm

    Any judge who would allow this is in direct violation of his/her oath of office to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. I say Hang them!

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  14. Pingback: Gates of Vienna News Feed 10/8/2013 | Gates of Vienna

  15. truedeelComment by truedeel
    October 9, 2013 @ 6:55 pm

    Jesus Christ is not a religion. He was a man who made a profound and positive impact on the world. That is a fact. Some people believe he is the son of God and the savior of man, but that does not make him a religion. Einstein may be quickly recognized as a symbol of scientific acheivement, but displaying his picture doesn’t not constitute worshiping science.

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