Dems delay auto bailout vote, seek plan from Big 3

[Terri]

By KEN THOMAS and JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
Associated Press
November 21, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The $25 billion rescue plan for the auto industry, desperately sought by Detroit's beleaguered Big Three, collapsed Thursday as Congress drew the line at one more bailout and Democrats said they wouldn't even consider it until the companies produced a convincing plan for rebuilding their once-mighty industry.

The demise of the rescue -- at least for now -- left uncertain the fate of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, and sent Wall Street spiraling to its lowest level in years. The Dow Jones industrials dropped 445 points, the second straight plunge of more than 400, and hit the lowest point in nearly six years.

The carmakers have been clobbered by lackluster sales and choked credit, and are battling to stay afloat through year's end. Failure of one or more of the Big Three would be a severe further blow to the floundering economy -- and to many Americans' view of the nation's industrial strength -- and throw a million or more additional workers off the job.

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[tamatt27]

"Failure of one or more of the Big Three would be a severe further blow to the floundering economy -- and to many Americans' view of the nation's industrial strength -- and throw a million or more additional workers off the job."
This is what will most likely happen if the gov't doesn't help out OUR industry base. It's grown too far to argue ideals. We need to vote to face reality. Spend a little money now to keep them in business, or cost the country billions later and put upwards of 3 million people out of work.

[oldjules]

The carmakers have been clobbered by lackluster sales and choked credit, and are battling to stay afloat through year's end. Failure of one or more of the Big Three would be a severe further blow to the floundering economy -- and to many Americans' view of the nation's industrial strength -- and throw a million or more additional workers off the job.

The big three is suffering from unionitus for a long time and it is a fatal disease. The only future they have is file bankruptcy and get clear of the union contracts and hire some forward looking management.
How can any business survive if they are paying more people not working than they have actively working?
If bailout is the answer then we could all go out and borrow money until we are millionaires.
You can not borrow yourself rich.

[Chief Cockeye]

I think Congress' refusal to bail out the auto industry is a sham, nothing more than a delaying tactic, by the Democrats. They don't want the Bush Administration or the Republicans to be able to take any credit for rescuing the Big 3 but want to wait until after the coronation to pass the legislation.

After the messiah is crowned, they will give the auto industry, and thus the autoworkers union, everything it wants.

Exactly as promised, they will spread the wealth from those despicable rich taxpayers to the poor United Auto Workers - never mind that the UAW is making a lot higher wage than the vast majority of Americans. And why not, its not their money they're giving away.

[MamaCat]

The fact that the Dems are holding the line on this gives me some hope. I think they are getting the picture, that other than autoworkers, Americans in general are against handing over $25 billion, in addition to the other $25 billion for "re-tooling" already promised. I don't think the Dems want to be saddled with this "win". If they get a plan from the automakers, which makes sense and includes redefining these union agreements, then maybe they can come up with a reasonable agreement. I give them credit for holding out.

You can not borrow yourself rich.

jules, that is a gem of wisdom that I will not soon forget!

[makamends]

We need to vote to face reality. Spend a little money now to keep them in business,

Hope you've a mouse in your pocket. I've already told my representatives to back off. Taxpayer investment in the auto industry at gunpoint is the reality I see. You are free to help the auto companies, buy a car, buy stock, or send them a donation.

[Chief Cockeye]

Mamacat,

...a plan from the automakers, which makes sense and includes redefining these union agreements,...

Without Chapter 11 or in the unlikely event of a UAW capitulation how can the automakers redefine their union contracts? How can they dispose of their debt? Is there any chance the UAW will take the kind of setbacks that would be needed to save the automakers?

They can submit all the plans they want, but they are going to have to shed some union imposed shackles - like high wages/pension benefits that far exceed the competition for starters - in order to compete. I think Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is the best way to salvage the American auto industry.

[MamaCat]

Chief, those are all good questions. I don't think they can re-define their union contracts without Chapter 11, because certainly the unions have already said they have no intention of cutting GM any slack. So I do think the bankruptcy is the answer. I'm just hoping congress will see the wisdom in it. I figure Romney knows a little about this kind of a situation since his background is in taking over failing enterprises and turning them around I trust his suggestion. Hopefully congress will humble themselves and take a little advice for the good of the country.

[Cynical Pete]

Managment causes failures not the unions or employees. These Big Three keep producing Big gas guzzling vehicles instead of the small inexpensive with good gas mileage such as the foreign car makers do who are selling cars.
In 1977, I went into a small foreign truck getting 20+ miles per gallon from a domestic truck getting 6 MPH. Being in the construction industry, I was ridiculed. Soon as gas went up, I began to see more and more economy vehicles at work. At that time, I was amazed by the fact the domestic car manufacturers just sat there and did nothing. We need a change of management and a change in their enormous salaries and perks before any bailout is initiated along with employees Congress like retirements.

[Chief Cockeye]

... a change of management and a change in their enormous salaries and perks before any bailout is initiated...

By all means! Throw them all out if necessary, but don't send any of my tax money to either the execs or the UAW. But make no mistake about it, the UAW bears a significant share of the responsibility for the American auto industry's current troubles.