Kucinich to Bush: Lift Cuban Embargo

[Terri]

Kucinich to Bush: Lift Cuban Embargo

By Charles Mahaleris
Talon News
November 18, 2003

WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich and President George W. Bush have taken diametrically opposite positions concerning Cuba. Kucinich has now called for an end to the embargo against that Communist nation.

Rep. Kucinich (D-OH) said from the campaign trail late last week, "The United States' Cuba policy is a failure. The unilateral embargo must be lifted The persistently hostile and aggressive rhetoric must cease. We must lift not only the trade embargo. We must also lift the travel ban. We must cooperate with Cuba on issues of national security."

"It is time to create a new era in Cuban-American relations," he said.

The administration, however, remains firm that the embargo must remain in place to see positive change in that island nation.

More (http://www.gopusa.com/news/2003/november/1118_kucinich_cuba.s html)

[2True]

Let me get this straight....

We deny trade and travel to Cuba because it is Communist.

However, we allow trade, travel, and the mass export of critical jobs and technology to China, which is also a Communist country but is far larger, far more dangerous, and has a far more brutal program of repression.

How does that make any sense at all...except to pander for Cuban-American votes in Florida?!

[midnight patriots]

It makes no sense except that China controls both ends of the Panama Canal, thanks to Clinton. China has more power than Cuba.

[XNavyGunner]

I say lift the sanctions. Then maybe I can have a decent cigar. Besides, Castro's no threat. Unless you count the Mariel Boatlift.

[2True]

Quote[/b] (XNavyGunner @ Nov. 18, 2003 -- 4:46 pm)]I say lift the sanctions. Then maybe I can have a decent cigar. Besides, Castro's no threat. Unless you count the Mariel Boatlift.
I agree.

We're told over and over again that "engagement" with China is the key to Democracy there. If the Administration is willing to play nicey-nicey with a huge threat like China, then a non-threat like Cuba should be a perfect candidate for the same, preferential treatment.

The embargo against Cuba makes no sense whatsoever...except as a pandering, domestic political calculation. And the last few elections have provided hard facts that ethnic/racial pandering is a losing strategy for the GOP (http://www.gopusa.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.pl?act=ST; f=16;t=6929;st=10).

Quote[/b] (midnight patriots @ Nov. 18, 2003 -- 3:33 pm)]It makes no sense except that China controls both ends of the Panama Canal, thanks to Clinton. China has more power than Cuba.
Sounds almost reasonable, except that Reagan and Bush-42 allowed trade with China but not Cuba. Even then China made no bones about its desire/plans to displace us as a superpower...even by force.

[midnight patriots]

I'm sure they have a reason for doing so with China and not Cuba, we just haven't thought of that reason yet. http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Floridaguy]

<span style='font-size:7.5pt;line-height:100%'>personally, as a Floridian (but not a Cuban) I agree with lifting the sanctions on Cuba. What a quick hop to a cool vacation spot it could be, like it was before Castro. Besides, Fidel is just about http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dead.gif anyways, right? http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif</span> *

http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cowboy7.gif *http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/peepwallA.gif

[USMC vet]

If Kucinich and the hollywierd crowd are for it, then count me against it.

I say keep the pressure on till old Fidel croaks. Giving in for no good reason would be so Neville Chamberlainish don't you think? French surrender monkeys say what?

We should all give 50% of our income to the UN, kiss up to the fascist/commie/socialist/islamofascist because it is all the American's fault anyway. Golly, I sure hope that Fidel likes me because I feel his pain.

Scuse me while I barf.

Semper Fi

[2True]

Quote[/b] (USMC vet @ Nov. 18, 2003 -- 8:27 pm)]If Kucinich and the hollywierd crowd are for it, then count me against it.
Rather than just making it a partisan he-said-she-said, I'd like to hear a rational reason why it's OK to treat China like our best girlfriend (to the tune of $40 billion trade deficit and 100,000s of American jobs exported to them) but not Cuba.

Still waiting....

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]&quot;It is time to create a new era in Cuban-American relations,&quot; he said.

Didn't we already do that? It's called FLORIDA! http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rotflo.gif

[USMC vet]

Quote[/b] ]Rather than just making it a partisan he-said-she-said, I'd like to hear a rational reason why it's OK to treat China like our best girlfriend (to the tune of $40 billion trade deficit and 100,000s of American jobs exported to them) but not Cuba.

Still waiting....


Well where have you been for the last 10 years?
Cute and rational too. *We all pick our fights. Mine is the judiciary's abuses and usurpations. *As far as China is concerned, the abuse of Christians and forced abortion are much bigger problems than comparing the PRC with Cuba. First off, why reward another socialist/communist dictator with American trade just because it has been done elsewhere? What kind of intellectual argument is that?

Sounds like a whiney child: You gave Sis some money, why not me? It begs many questions that I for one do not have the time nor inclination to delve into properly. The comment about Clinton giving away control of the Panama Canal to the Chinese was a fact whose significance seems to be unimportant to you. If one is to be a serious investigator into a topic, it would seem that all strategic points would deserve scrutiny.

Some would argue that just as the USSR fell due to in part to the failure of socialism's centrally planned economies ( they could not keep up with the Reagan military build up and subsequently spent themselves into oblivion) , free trade may help move China away from Communism toward more freedom via capitalism. *Wishful thinking? Depends on the time constant. Give a couple hundred years... who know... *Given the size of the potential market, no wonder that the corporations have great lobbying budgets. *One is reminded of Bernie Schwartz and Loral who were instrumental, IMO, in arranging for high tech export license and controls oversight to be moved from State to Commerce. (No one ever was convicted for the murder of Ron Brown were they?)
Their legal purchase of guidance technology, super computers, and the like coupled with the theft of our nuclear, neutron bomb, and MIRV secrets and you can easily see why it is much more important to keep an eye on them than anything that little Fidel can scream about. The democrats can not stand the fact that America won the cold war and was the sole super power. IMO that is why the left under Clinton were so cavalier with security so that China could attain parity as a super power. Those same EU leftists who were so sympathetic to the USA immediatly after 9/11 then took umbrage at our retaliation. Now why is that? *

For me, I will trust those with whom I am allied, and will distrust those whom have exhibited opposite values. Kucinich is obviously a socialist, therefore anything that comes out of his mouth that relates at all to commerce deserves suspicion by all supporters of free enterprise and capitalism.

Happy now? Time to go back to work.

Semper Fi

[midnight patriots]

Translation= Cuba doesn't have anything we want desperately and/or they aren't powerful enough to have us over a barrel to do their will. All they have from what I see is cigars and vacation spots. The ellites just want to make legal what they are already doing.

Thanks alot to Clinton, China has gained much that has allowed them to jump ahead generations from where they were and very quickly I might add. They are a big threat to us now and frankly have us by the ( * *) fill in the blank. This is why we bend over for them and gave them favored nation status. They have something on us, we have made deals and will continue to do so. They created a monster in China that got out of control and now they are screwed.

*Tell me, am I getting warm USMC vet?

[USMC vet]

Hey there MP:

Quote[/b] ]Tell me, am I getting warm USMC vet?


OOrah ! Gettin there. *

Quote[/b] ]( * *) fill in the blank

I believe that would be ( short hairs ). sehr gut?

Semper Fi

[2True]

I see a lot of excuses that China is Clinton's fault.

So why is the Bush Administration allowing the last domestic source of special magnets for JDAM munitions to be exported to China?

[2True]

Quote[/b] (USMC vet @ Nov. 19, 2003 -- 10:19 am)]First off, why reward another socialist/communist dictator with American trade just because it has been done elsewhere?
Why continue to reward any?

Either we trade with Communists for the purpose of &quot;engagement&quot; to move them toward Democracy or we don't.

The &quot;kiss up to China but exclude Cuba&quot; line makes no sense...unless you're just kissing up to people looking to make a buck off of cheap Chinese labor at the expense of your fellow Citizens.

Quote[/b] (CitizensLobby.com @ email)]
DRAGON IN THE DARK (http://www.dragoninthedark. com)

&quot;For Communist China, the terrorist war is simply another stage in their undeclared cold war with the United States. Just as World War II was another stage in the first Cold War for the Soviets, the war on terror is a stage of Cold War II for the People’s Republic,&quot; writes D.J. McGuire in his new book 'Dragon in the Dark : How and Why Communist China Helps Our Enemies in the War on Terror.' &quot;We are not only in a declared war against terrorism, but also an undeclared war against Communist China...&quot;
Reagan led us to win the Cold War by calling the SU an &quot;Evil Empire&quot; and daring them to beat us. Current policy seems to be to lie down and beg for any scrap China deigns to throw our way. Sure doesn't sound much like a victory plan to me.

[USMC vet]

Hey 2true:

Quote[/b] ]I see a lot of excuses that China is Clinton's fault.


and your point is ?

Quote[/b] ]Sure doesn't sound much like a victory plan to me.


We may have common ground here. From some of your comments you seem to lean left, no offense if I have surmised incorrectly. *As far as I am concerned our national policy toward China has reeked of liberal appeasement. Bush gets no accolades on this. *He has left entirely too many Clintonistas in office in State, at Langeley and who knows where else. *What scares me is that we are getting no news at all regarding the Red Threat, other than as it applies to NKorea.

There was some info not too long ago exposing a book written by a Chinese general that outlined their war plans vis a vis the USA but no surprise that the media did not pick up on it.
I may have some resource material and links if you are interested.

Semper Fi

[midnight patriots]

USMC vet tell me what else I am missing then. Also your (short hairs) was not the word I was thinking.

2True Clinton gave China a whole bunch of things that not only allowed them to skip ahead several generations and get out of the dark ages in a short time, but he enabled them to become a threat to our country. Bush is disappointiingly carrying out that tradition for some reason as I stated earlier.

[2True]

Quote[/b] (USMC vet @ Nov. 19, 2003 -- 12:51 pm)]From some of your comments you seem to lean left, no offense if I have surmised incorrectly.
Ironic, since your &quot;loyalty no matter what the Party does&quot; comments earlier reminded me of how Democrats operate.

No offense.

[USMC vet]

2true
Quote[/b] ]Ironic, since your &quot;loyalty no matter what the Party does&quot; comments earlier reminded me of how Democrats operate.


Ua contraire ( I gotta stop using Frenchie phrases). Not only have you misperceived, you are putting words in my mouth. Your quotations imply to the casual reader that I am a mindless lemming &quot;no matter what&quot;http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? *You didn't hear that from me.

Being calibrated to automatically oppose the ramblings of the socialist from Ohio, may place me on the same side as many. However, unlike Clinton who led by trying to figure out which way the people were going and then jump in front of them, I walk my own path. Note I did not say I was joining with anyone. I said that I was opposing the Ohiodwarf and I threw in a jab at the leftists on the left coast.

Crystal?

Semper Fi

[2True]

Quote[/b] (USMC vet @ Nov. 19, 2003 -- 9:17 pm)]Your quotations imply to the casual reader that I am a mindless lemming &quot;no matter what&quot;http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? You didn't hear that from me.
Hmmm...so what exactly did &quot;For me, I will trust those with whom I am allied&quot; in the context of this discussion. Given the full history of your comments in this thread -- including your disparaging comments toward me because I find the China/Cuba policies hypocritical -- it is impossible to read your &quot;For me, I will trust those with whom I am allied&quot; comment any other way.

Perhaps in the future you will stick to the issue instead of the personalities.

[markinthedark]

Points of interest here. The Monroe Docrtine is in effect here. Cuba DID start setting the stage for Nuclear War. Castro did vow to over throw the capitalist running dogs to the north.
1. Cuba is NINTY miles from Florida. China is three thousand miles from California.
2. China controls the canal at OUR sufferance. Ninty minutes of US airpower would turn them into the Lost Brigade.
3. We have China by the economic nuts, it is bad marketing to tick off your biggest customer. Trade restrictions would cost the Red Army ONE BILLION DOLLARS A DAY. They are tyrants, but not stupid.
4. Castro is a terrorist. And is in our backyard!

[2True]

Quote[/b] (markinthedark @ Nov. 20, 2003 -- 11:36 pm)]3. We have China by the economic nuts, it is bad marketing to tick off your biggest customer. Trade restrictions would cost the Red Army ONE BILLION DOLLARS A DAY. They are tyrants, but not stupid.
I am not too on board with any of your points; but I really disagree with this one.

Our relationship with Japan when it was in good economic health presages our current relationship with China. Business interests are the ones who have Congress by the balls, no matter what it does to John Q. Public.

And when in the last 50 years has the USA ever done anything significant to penalize a major trading partner? NEVER. The Chinese know this. They are not afraid because they know our politicians are gutless and will not act in our best interest. The gutlessness of the GOP in the Senate just hammers that home....

[USMC vet]

Quote[/b] ]The gutlessness of the GOP in the Senate just hammers that home....

If you are looking for an argument, you are going to have to change the subject.

Roger on the I.I. ( imaginary intestines)

Semper Fi

[midnight patriots]

Both parties have blended together, like they made some kind of dark deal. I see no difference anymore and this new party swings to the gutless left.