PDA

View Full Version : PRISON


JOEBIALEK
11-10-2003, 08:26 PM
"Most people who are in the prison system will get out, they will be somebody’s neighbor and they will have gained nothing from their time in prison except the knowledge that “it’s you or me” because that’s the way it is in our prisons. They have removed most of the educational programs from our prisons because the tax payers don’t want to throw away good money on worthless criminals. They have no counseling, nothing to help them change whatever it was that got them where they are in the first place. Is this what we really want?" "Misconceptions About Prison Life" By Jeanette Doil

The Eighth Amendment of The Bill of Rights for the Constitution of the United States: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." The very way prisons are operated today is a clear violation of this amendment.

Prison life today is the complete forfeiture of freedom for a certain period of time; sometimes the remaining days of one's life. Both violent and non-violent people are mixed together in the prison population which violates the Eighth Amendment because the potentiality for violence against non-violent offenders strongly exists. Furthermore, given the present conditions, those given life sentences without the possibility of parol would be better off if given the option of execution by the method of their choosing. But what about those with the chance of eventually leaving prison and returning to society?

One of the things strongly lacking in prison today is personal discipline; self imposed discipline. This is the discipline that makes you try harder and work more intensely then you ever thought you could. Sadly, prisoners lack both the incentive and ability to develop this themselves. Consequently, discipline needs to come from outside themselves. The best source of external discipline comes from United States Marine Corps boot-camp seargants. Prisoners need to be treated the same as new recruits when they step off the bus into the prison yard for the first time. It needs to be made clear that until they are released, the "system" will not allow them to continue in their present state of disorder. Once the prisoner accepts their new found source of discipline, they may "graduate" to learning a trade or completing an education. Various forms of counselling must also be provided in order to keep them focused on their path to rehabilitation. The right of the prisoners to peaceably assemble must be forfeited in order to prevent the formation of groups detrimental to the process. This would also prevent the smuggling of drugs into the prison as the corrupt corrections officer would no longer have a "market". The problem with prisons today is that they only serve to foster a continuation of the human condition that leads to incarceration. With all this discussion and funding of homeland security, it would seem logical to start with America's prisons as a means of improving the safety and security of every United States citizen.

Terri
11-10-2003, 11:05 PM
Joe, I'm going to move this one over to our Rants and Essays section since it appears to be self-authored.

azwhitewolf
11-10-2003, 11:39 PM
Interesting points here, Joe.
Quote[/b] ]They have removed most of the educational programs from our prisons because the tax payers don’t want to throw away good money on worthless criminals. They have no counseling, nothing to help them change whatever it was that got them where they are in the first place. Is this what we really want?"
Actually, from what I understand, you can get your GED, which is equivalent to a high school education. They also get free health care, 3 meals a day, and in some cases, cable TV and magazines (including porn, which is great for the sex offenders) at the expense of the very citizens they put in danger to get there.

Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I don't feel really obligated to make prison life comfortable. The very POINT of prison is a punishment, not a day care.
Quote[/b] ]Prison life today is the complete forfeiture of freedom for a certain period of time; sometimes the remaining days of one's life.
A choice made by the prisoner, and not the state.
Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, given the present conditions, those given life sentences without the possibility of parol would be better off if given the option of execution by the method of their choosing.
I'm all for it.
Quote[/b] ]One of the things strongly lacking in prison today is personal discipline; self imposed discipline.
Well, it wasn't personal discipline that got them in there, quite the opposite.
Quote[/b] ] The best source of external discipline comes from United States Marine Corps boot-camp seargants. Prisoners need to be treated the same as new recruits when they step off the bus into the prison yard for the first time.
That's a great idea, and I fully agree with you. However, the ACLU has a different definition of "cruel and unusual punishment", as defined by your own Ammendment. Unfortunately, a boot-camp style prison system will get sued left and right for their "battery" of prisoners. I wish I was more optimistic. But I'm not.
Quote[/b] ]With all this discussion and funding of homeland security, it would seem logical to start with America's prisons as a means of improving the safety and security of every United States citizen.
I don't see how the two relate, but I wouldn't mind using your plan if you could get it to work. That's the challenege, however. I also think we could use more funding to protect our borders.

But great article, and I appreciate your comments. http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

rfurtkamp
11-11-2003, 06:29 AM
The other thing is that the boot camp approach only works on motivated people with an end in sight.

That and it's designed at least in part to get the individual participants to band together and rise against the authority of their instructor.

I don't think we want that in prisons.

XNavyGunner
11-11-2003, 12:37 PM
Seeing as how I am in a prison 8 hours+ a day, I have to add my own comments. First I would love to know where JOEBIALEK gets his information. Is it from inmates or do you have any actual hands on experience? If it is from inmates, then I know it's truly biased. If it is hands on, then in what capacity?

Secondly inmates do choose to go to prison. They break the law!!! It's called accountability for one's actions. If someone breaks the law then they Belong in prison.

You make prison sound to be a terrible expreience. I hope it is. Then there's motivation for former inmates not to come back.

You complain about inmates not getting education. Why aren't you worried about vets getting a free education. We earned it not some inmate in prison.

You did forget to add inmates have more rights than us officers. If they spit on us, curse us or threaten us too bad for us. If we look at one cross eyed then we violated theirr rights. Then we face lawsuits, suspension, firing or worse.

So if I sound like I have no compassion for inmates, you're right, I don't. My compassion is for their victims and the HONEST citizens who pay the taxes that feed, clothe themm and pay their medical bills.

USMC vet
11-11-2003, 01:41 PM
If you can't do the time, .......

Actions have consequences. No tears from this side of the glass window.

Semper Fi

danwunderlin
11-12-2003, 10:09 AM
I have to take a moment and vent about Senator Lieberman. I was on my way to work this morning when I heard him on the radio speaking at a Veterans day event yesterday. I live in Connecticut, so I get more Lieberman coverage than some others that live in the rest of the nation. He said, "Our veterans have to wait too long and go too far for the healthcare they were promised, and that's wrong. I'm going to fix that." Bravo Joe! http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif The problem with that statement is that he, in part, is to blame for the problem facing not only our vets, but active duty members as well. Back in the dark ages, 1992-2000, President Clinton and the First Lady vowed to socialize healthcare in this country. Obviously they failed, thank goodness, but what many of you may or may not know, is that they did manage to "overhaul" healthcare in the military. I went from being able to be seen by a doctor on a base, in a hospital, on any given day at any given time, for any problem large or small; to, calling my insurance company, gettting permission to be seen by my Primary Care Manager, getting a referral to be seen by a civilian doctor, maybe miles away from my base, after my health insurance approved the request. I am still active duty, so I have top priority in the food chain. Now add the fact that the only people below retired veterans on the priority list for this healthcare system, is retired veteran dependents, one has no other choice but to agree with the distinguished gentleman from Connecticut. Thank you Senator for pointing out, to all of America, that socialized medicine does not work. Thank you for fixing the problem that you helped create for our veterans and their families. Thank you for caring, sir.