Secular Republicans

[RepublicUSA]

What is the tolerance for conservatives within the Republican Party who are secular?

How tolerant are religious conservatives or secular conservatives?

Can secular conservatives be IN the Republican party?

[RiverKing]

RepublicUSA:

I sense that, by secular, you mean those who are no more committed to religion than you. (Note that I make no assumption of your actual religious commitment.) That rather oblique answer tells you what MY answer would be to your various questions, but I don't claim to speak for all Conservatives or for the GOP.

My favorite direct answer to such questions is, "I will fight to my death to protect your right to believe and to say whatever you want; I will fight to YOUR death to protect MY right to ignore you." A more complete answer, however, gets into basic differences between liberal and conservative thinking.

Questions like those you have asked are frequently posed by Liberals with the intention of entrapping the Conservative. The Liberal, having no bed-rock principles guiding his thought and actions, assumes that all Conservatives unthinkingly follow a party line as the Liberal does. The truth is that all Conservatives, be they devout Born Again Christians, occasional church-goers, Jews, or atheists, share certain principles that mark them as Conservatives. Rather than following a party line dictated by the GOP, these principles have been internalized by early (childhood) training and/or deep consideration later in life.

The most basic of those principles is an unshakable belief in the inalienable rights listed in the Declaration of Independence, namely Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. All else flows from one or more of these principles. For example, a Conservative is more likely to be Pro-Life; this follows directly from the right to Life. Conservatives are often heard quoting Thomas Jefferson's "That government governs best which governs least."; an expansion on the rights to Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

In addition to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, I can't imagine any Conservative objecting to the Ten Commandments. Does that make us all religious zealots or, as Liberals would have it, intolerant religious bigots? Hardly. I know some committed Conservatives who are atheists but fully support the Judeo-Christian philosophy. (Along about here, someone is going to object based on the First Commandment; I would suggest that they examine the First Commandment in detail. Hint: The atheist rejects only one more God than does any monotheistic religious sect.)

Now, your basic question was really, "How tolerant are Conservatives?" As I said above, I speak for no one else, but, in my opinion, Conservatives are completely tolerant (though not necessarily accepting) of other ideas. At the same time, we tend to be completely intolerant of poseurs who call themselves Republicans or, worse, call themselves Conservative while consistently acting contrary to conservative principles. Note that this opinion doesn't mention or distinguish between religious and secular Conservatives.

[Terri]

The simple and direct answer is that the Republican Party and the conservative movement are two separate entities.

Tolerance for secular conservatives is alive and well within the Republican Party but not necessarily so within the socially conservative wing of the conservative movement.

Some social conservatives tend to believe they are the only conservatives, forgetting entirely about conservatism based on limited government and controlled spending. That, of course, was the philosophy of the original conservative movement, well before the days of the Moral Majority.

[makamends]

Conservatives who are atheists but fully support the Judeo-Christian philosophy.

I'd say that is the minimum for being an American conservative because they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights

conservatism based on limited government and controlled spending.

These folks are seeking life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but a secular individual has no charter?

[Texanna]

What a good question!

It depends on what you mean by "tolerant".

As long as a person holds to the ideals of the Republican Party, that person can be a Republican, regardless of what that person's religious beliefs are or aren't.

Despite what you may have been taught, the Republican Party is the party of true personal freedom. We believe in limited government, and believe that individuals are responsible for their own lives and choices.

[Charie]

These folks are seeking life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but a secular individual has no charter?

No charter? I don't understand what you mean by this question.

Of course non-religious people can be in the Republican Party. I'm not sure why anyone would think differently. I do know that they do, however. Their thinking isn't mine.

I'm religious in the sense that I believe in the one God and that Jesus died for my sins. I do no longer go to church but that's beside the point. I welcome those who are unbelievers as well as believers. I ask that they believe in smaller government, constitutional adherence and less spending.

Now I get to the social stuff. I condemn abortion. In this day and age of hundreds of ways to prevent pregnancy there's no excuse for an abortion when people can see that it is an actual baby inside the mother and not just a piece of inanimate flesh. I hate to see Republicans pro-abortion because in my mind, it indicates that they are selfish and uncaring of human life.

As I consider this murder, there is no way I can condone it. I am very judgmental about it. God gave me the brains to think and reason and I use them. There are exceptions, of course. In a general way I would have difficulty associating with a woman who had abortions. This is not to say she can't be in the Republican Party. I'm sure she'd look askance at my anti-abortion position, as well.

There are other social items (welfare, political correctness, etc.) that I think are very bad for our country and Americans in general, because they encourage laziness, lack of work ethic, inability to speak the truth without fear of general censure, and making us a bunch of litigious morons. That's the beginning, not the end.

If a person is totally on the liberal side in social beliefs, then I just don't think they're much of a Republican and why would they want to be?

Religion just doesn't enter into it, to my way of thinking because a belief in God is so ingrained in our culture that it permeates everything considered moral and legal. Even atheists get their morals from the bible whether they know it or not. A person isn't born knowing right from wrong.

I'll go no further because I'm veering off topic.

[makamends]

No charter? I don't understand what you mean by this question.

It can be demonstrated that huge government of centralized control is detrimental to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That's a big "so what" without charter. Those enforcing their "unalienable rights" are in a superior position to those expressing their opinion.

[Terri]

If a person is totally on the liberal side in social beliefs, then I just don't think they're much of a Republican and why would they want to be?
Because they believe in limited government, controlled spending and a strong national defense.

There is entirely too much confusion of terms.

All conservatives are not Republicans and all Republicans are not conservative.

All conservatives are not social conservatives but they are still conservatives based on the original conservative principles of small government, limited spending and a strong defense of country.

These are also the constitutional duties of the federal government as mentioned in the Constitution.

All others are left to the states.

[Engineer Scott]

I'll accept your help where we agree and oppose you where we disagree. But someone who is fiscally conservative and in favor of smaller government and yet is liberal on social policy is not a conservative, they're a libertarian. Libertarianism is ultimately its own undoing in that it allows for the same irresponsibility that causes people to clamor for larger government. It is incumbent upon the individual to lead a life of principles if true conservatism and our Constitution are expected to be upheld.

Scotty

[RepublicUSA]

I'm making this post really quick cause I'm in a bit of a run, but I scanned a few of these topics and wanted to clear a few things up:

-Yes, I am a secular conservative
-96% of my positions in politics are with Republicans/Conservatives
-I am pro-life
-I am not against practicing religion
-I am for small government, free market enterprise, strong national defense, and capitalism
-I am for protecting all amendments of the constitution...and protecting the constitution itself.
-I am against progressive tax...like the fair tax (low taxes)
-I do consider myself a social conservative (minus the religious aspect)


I have voted Republican 100% of the time since I was 18.

[SewingSusie]

Republic, :welcome: aboard here.
I am a fundamentalist Christian, and I agree with your positions that you listed.
I was raised a staunch dem and taught to laugh at and despise religious and political conservatives.
There is none of that here, though we do discuss the errors of liberalism and express our thoughts, opinions, and feelings about it and what it is doing to our Country.
It's what I like best about this place. Liberals occasionally come in here and tell us we're a bunch of morons (and worse), then leave when we calmly present them with the facts.
Sometimes we disagree with each other on a particular opinion, but it's always with the respect due to a fellow human being.
Please come down to the lounge, otherwise known as Today In The Precinct, and :chatter: and get acquainted with us.
We're glad to have you here!
Blessings,
Sewing Susie

[ReneeCA.]

I'm a religious conservative and I am proud to admit it.

Does this mean that I am not enlightened or as sophisticated or tolerant in my views as a secular conservative?

I think not!

All it means to me is that I base my choice to be a conservative in a party that is most suitable to my values and lessons I have learned to follow in the teachings of Our Lord.

YOU can be a conservative atheist for all I care and have your own reasons for being one but that does not take away the fact that this country was founded on a belief in God. It is on our money and in our Declaration of Independence and our founding fathers extolled the Lord like it or not.

Now we can't even have a flyover for a God and country celebration for our military and Veterans after 42 years as happened in Idaho recently. Or how many are now fighting to take God out of Christmas because it might offend someone!

I detest the secularization of our country. Our laws were based partly on the Commandments. This country was founded on a Judeo-Christian foundation This country no longer allows prayers in school or for our game players to thank God before a game.

This used to be part of our fabric in this country and where have we gone since taking these things down?

Don't people know the difference between the separation of church and state and having a particular God or religion that represents this country?

Anyway, just my two cents.

[RepublicUSA]

I saw the flyover situation on O'Reilly and I think that was pretty dumb of the Obama administration. Its a tradition that backs 40+ years!! He can take Air Force One over NY and do a flyover and scare the entire city to death, waste $350,000...but a simple flyover in Idaho...noooo...can' t do that. I think Obama is a hypocrite that tries to appeal to his base only---it is that arrogance that will destroy him.

I still say "Merry Christmas"...not cause it is a religious term (thought it is to most people)...but that is what the 25th is: Christmas!! I grew up saying Merry Christmas and I will continue saying it.

I also agree that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and have no problem with that. The fact is, I have no problem with people practicing religion. I just choose not to believe in God and I have my own reasons.


I read somewhere that only 4% of this country is atheist. And only 3% of atheist are Republicans. That puts me in a very very very small group :)


Feel free to continue adding to this discussion. I am interested in hearing people's opinions!

[Caliphant]

The simple and direct answer is that the Republican Party and the conservative movement are two separate entities.

Tolerance for secular conservatives is alive and well within the Republican Party but not necessarily so within the socially conservative wing of the conservative movement.

Some social conservatives tend to believe they are the only conservatives, forgetting entirely about conservatism based on limited government and controlled spending. That, of course, was the philosophy of the original conservative movement, well before the days of the Moral Majority.

Couldn´t put it any better, Terri. I was raised in a pretty much secular yet conservative family.

I still believe that Goldwater conservatives outweight social conservatives in the GOP but fail to take the party back to its roots and basic principles as they fear to lose social conservative votes.

[Engineer Scott]

His second wife turned Goldwater into a flaming radical libertarian if not outright liberal. If so-called Goldwater Republicans can drive people like me out, they'll be in a permanent minority.

Scotty

[p47mark]

Re secular conservatism, I echo Terri's point that the Republican Party is the party most dedicated to personal freedom and individual responsibility. We got off the track under liberal, D.C. social pressure, but we can take it back now, if enough people step up and work their buns off to get good candidates elected to Congress next year.

At this point, to not vote Republican is as good as a vote for the Marxists.

To RepublicUSA:

I think Obama is a hypocrite that tries to appeal to his base only---it is that arrogance that will destroy him.
You hit on a very important point here. Obama is arrogantly confident, because he intends to INCREASE their voter rolls with ACORN census takers and "immigrants." The Amnesty Bill will take the floor next week to make the current invaders legal citizens.

They also intend to open wide the door for 3rd Worlders who will flock into this country for health and welfare freebies.

We must stop this, or we've had it. If ever there was a time to get your friends and sit outside your reps' doors... esp. the Dems and the 8 Republican Traitors. Give them no quarter!


Welcome to GOPUSA. Great website.

[qrayjack]

Maybe as conservatives or Republicans, take your pick, we are too caught up in labels and categories to apply ourselves to the real issue: Saving America.

And for the Republicans, this is not the time to start debating the future of the Republican Party and, "Do we need to get rid of the social issues? Do we need to get rid of the conservative Christians? Do we need to become more moderate and seek out the Hispanic vote? Do we have to go out to the black vote? Do we have to go out to the female vote? Do we have to go out to the Asian vote?" We don't have the luxury of playing those kinds of political games because the future of the country is at stake, and there is only one choice in opposition to Obama. We cannot say that as a party to survive, "We must recognize that the American people want big government. They like government doing things for them and we must find a way to reach them and the people in the middle class, and we must find a way to get there and tell them that we can do it better for them." This is not a time to compromise on the belief that limited government, personal freedom, is the definition of greatness of this country. It's time for the Republican Party to put aside its primary calculation of, "How can we win elections?" and instead focus on, "How can we save America?" and in the process, they will win elections if they are oriented toward saving the country, 'cause those are the two choices.Rush Limbaugh (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com /home/daily/site_071509/content/01125111.guest.html)

[ReneeCA.]

p47 mark. You are right about the new legal immigrants to this country being a voting block for Obama.

He just allowed women that are abused by their husbands in foreign countries to seek asylum here in the good old USA a law that Bush did not allow.

[makamends]

He just allowed women that are abused by their husbands in foreign countries to seek asylum here in the good old USA a law that Bush did not allow.

Hard to say who "allowed" this feature of immigration law. The provision is created in the IRCA 1986 and all presidents, Republicans and Dems, since then have operated with it in place.

[chaloner]

We need a leader. A true leader thats not a RINO! And is not affraid to fight! Maybe we need a true Conservative leader to make a new party. A true Conservative Party!

[schillerbjr]

Urrrrrrrrgh!!

[richfeld]

Once upon a time, a group of men decided to write a book in hope of controlling the minds and behaviors of others. They collected myths that were as many as 500 years old and added their own prejudiced opinions. Despite the fact that historians have exposed the plagiarized history of this document and scientists have disproved many of the scientific theories, there are still approximately two billion pathetically brainwashed intellectual dwarfs clutching onto this primordial belief system expecting their souls to live for eternity.

With moderates evenly divided between the two major candidates, George Bush captured the White House by gratifying the most narrow-minded Americans. Last year, Democrats gained control of the White House, Senate and House of Representatives because thoroughly disgusted moderates overwhelmingly voted out right wing extremists. I imagine many of these moderates are thrilled that right wing extremists have been removed from Congress, but regret having elected a left wing extremist to the White House.

The Republican Party is in total disarray today. Rush Limbaugh speaks for the extremist element and sincerely believes that there is no room for pro-choice people in his party. The right wing extremists want government to ram their intolerant views down the throats of all Americans while moderates want the party to return to their less government is better position and abandon the extremist element. If the extremists win and a raving lunatic like Mike Huckabee or Sarah Palin is the next Republican presidential nominee then Barack Obama will be reelected.

[Paulmarkar]

I see richfield, you want Stalin or Mao to be president or maybe even your nationalist socialist favorite Hitler.

[richfeld]

The twisted logic of the modern Christian Crusader never ceases to amaze. Stalin, Mao and Hitler were moderates?

[Paulmarkar]

No they're who Obama models himself after.

[Engineer Scott]

The Republican Party is in total disarray today. Rush Limbaugh speaks for the extremist element and sincerely believes that there is no room for pro-choice people in his party. The right wing extremists want government to ram their intolerant views down the throats of all Americans while moderates want the party to return to their less government is better position and abandon the extremist element.

One legitimate function of government is the protection of the innocent. If you believe the unborn are nonetheless still fully human, it's not extremism, but intellectual consistency that drives us to believe government should at least restrict abortion if not eliminate it outright.

BTW- the motto of the American Revolution was "No king but King Jesus." Choke on that one, bro.

Scotty

[richfeld]

Comments alleging that the narcissistic Obama models himself after Stalin, Mao and Hitler only serve to further alienate moderates from the Republican Party.

Most of our Founding Fathers questioned the divinity of Jesus, which is understandable as there is absolutely no scientific evidence that the universe was created by design and no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed.

[Charie]

richfield, darling, where have you been? We've been waiting for you.

Rush Limbaugh speaks for the extremist element and sincerely believes that there is no room for pro-choice people in his party.

Rush Limbaugh, although anti-abortion has never said such a thing. Please find me a source for your statement.


exposed the plagiarized history of this document and scientists have disproved many of the scientific theories,

The Bible, which I'm sure you're referring to, is not a scientific book so I'm not sure what part of it is referenced. I'd certainly like to read your version of it.

Last year, Democrats gained control of the White House, Senate and House of Representatives because thoroughly disgusted moderates overwhelmingly voted out right wing extremists

Oh yeah, they don't like extremists so they elected far Leftwing Obama over that hugely far Rightwing extremist John McCain . :rotflo: :hilarious: :rofl:

Thank you, thank you, richfield. That's the best laugh I've had since this morning when I heard Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. OMG, here I go again. :mdr11: :rotflo: :chdance :woohoo: :hilarious:

Come again, richfield. It's been a riot.

[richfeld]

In fact, I heard Rush Limbaugh on his radio show state that there is no room for anyone who is pro-choice in the Republican Party.

The terrestrial authors of the Bible made the fatal mistake of infringing on the real world of science and were categorically wrong, but that doesn’t stop the pathetically brainwashed from clinging onto to their irrational hope of eternal life.

As I clearly stated above, many moderates are probably starting to regret having elected a left wing extremist to the White House although it’s perfectly understandable that they were appalled at the thought of Sarah Palin as Vice President.

[TimDreamer]

Obviously, richfeld, you have never read the Bible.

God revealed to us things long before science or medicine knew anything about it... the secret of life is in the blood, handwashing and cleanliness LONG before Kathleen Seibelus even thought about it, and also how to deal with Black Mold issues in a house. These are but a few examples that God gave to the writers of the Bible about our world and how to behave.

Nice Huff-n-Puff talking points, BTW.

Come back when you read your UU handbook.

[richfeld]

Obviously, TimDreamer, you were indoctrinated into the Christian cult and never developed intellectually to comprehend that all religion is 100% pure bull crap. There are many books and websites to assist the religiously brainwashed break away from their primordial belief system.

There is absolutely no evidence and a practically zero chance that the universe was created by design. Your mythical deity didn’t ghost write the Bible or any other book. In fact, Christianity may be the least original religion conjured up by the human race as the myths are mostly plagiarized from Mithraism.

[TimDreamer]

Obviously, richfeld, you just don't get it.

There are many books and websites out there to help those of you who think that man is God.

C'mon, cite me proof that the universe wasn't created. Since you've brought up the subject.

Can't, can you?

Neither can I prove that the universe was created.

It's all a belief system. Yours, mine, theirs.

[richfeld]

No, TimDreamer, science is definitely not a belief system. Unlike dangerous religious superstitions, science is based on observable facts. No reputable scientist believes that man is God just that man created deities initially to explain the unknown and later to influence the actions of others.

However, historians and scientists can analyze books and the Bible and all other documents used by religious cults were discredited before your grandparents were born. Religious brainwashing is the single greatest threat the human race has ever encountered and has no place in a world with weapons of mass destruction.

It’s time for all religious addicts to grow up, learn how to cope with daily stress and their own mortality without the need for an imaginary savior.

[TimDreamer]

Well, richfeld, I'm waiting....


Cite me proof that the universe wasn't created. C'mon.

Your "science" should be able to do that.

[richfeld]

No, TimDreamer, the purpose of science isn’t to disprove every cockamamie idea conjured up by religious cults. However, science may be able to duplicate the moments after the universe’s origin in our lifetime. The pathetically weak still engage in primordial religious rituals over a century after Charles Darwin’s momentous book so I’m sure you’ll figure out a way to rationalize still being in a religious cult even if the Large Hadron Collider scientific experiment is successful.

[TuffRinAK]

Comments alleging that the narcissistic Obama models himself after Stalin, Mao and Hitler -"

Most of our Founding Fathers questioned the divinity of Jesus, which is understandable as there is absolutely no scientific evidence that the universe was created by design and no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed.

Now, obviously you entered this forum to set us all straight. Right?

Several thing's..1) Your intentionally stirring up people on this site, Yeah, yeah, free speech and all that. 2) Obama is modeling his action's after Stalin, Mao and Hitler....probably Mao more than the others but very possibly some combination. In any event he's not modeling his action's from a prior U.S. President; least-wise a successful one.

I mean, if you can't see his failures as un-popular and building.....based on his marxist, facist, Mao, socialist principles and action's so far; then you miss-calculate the patriotism that IS very, very much still alive in this country and people who DO know history and HAVE experienced these dictator's and who do see a very similar progressive sequence of event' happening, here.

Well, your boy's not doing to good and neither is the democratic party, as a party. Personally, I've voted for 44 year's for president's from my gut. NO-I didn't vote for Obama.....the man ain't got NO experience and it's showing.

He's nothen but a slick talken Community Organizer who cower's to radical left winger's, to people who don't like the constitution, free enterprise, or capitalism. But, then again some people just can't accept they've a right to make decision's on their own and not leap over the cliff before looking down. I don't know.....experience tell's me to make carefull evaluation before I follow any inexperienced jumper.

Granted most all politician's are liar's but this guy abuses the right. Transparency my back side. And his wife just recently became proud of America. (I think she meant America. It's just a question of what took her so long) And he is a liar!!

I don't think our original founding father's were privy to any state of the art scientific discoveries about god then, or now for that matter. But, quite a few signer's, not less were, in fact, very involved in religion.

Religions' a belief and frankly enters politics too often. IMHO And it seems someone is always dragging their religion into running a nation. Frankly, if one were to check it, the whole world's been kinda screwed up because of different belief's. Most religions have learned to be civilized...other's not.

'Course, American Indian's weren't considered civilized. They worshiped Mother Earth, something a little bit more down to earth. Poor bast***s. And here we came, busting-in, to crash their party.

[Paulmarkar]

Charles Darwin was an educated idiot. The mathematical probabilities of evolution being the way life occurred are about the same as if you took a Rolex watch, disassembled it, threw it up in the air and have it land completely assembled and running set to the correct time and date.
However, science may be able to duplicate the moments after the universe’s origin in our lifetime. Would that be the same people who say that the Big Bang came from a single atom.

[qrayjack]

Gosh I love it when these genius left-wing ideologues come here to save us from ourselves with all their convoluted drivel that is about as connected with reality as the Obama White House. More fun than a barrel of rats.

[richfeld]

TuffRinAK: Obama is NOT my man. McCain was the lesser of two evils. It’s always advisable to vote for a moderate over an extremist especially a narcissistic and inexperienced extremist like Obama. You are correct that the whole world is ‘screwed up’ because of religious cults and the Christian movement in this country is largely responsible for the economy being in shambles.

No, Paulmarker, you are the idiot not Charles Darwin who was a genius. Evolution has been scientifically verified. It’s a national disgrace that the Republican Party pacifies intellectual dwarfs like you!

grayjack: What comment above makes you think that I’m a left wing ideologue? I happen to be moderate and right of center. If the Republican doesn’t stop placating evolution denying lunatics like Paulmarker then the party will soon be obsolete.

[qrayjack]

What comment above makes you think that I’m a left wing ideologue?Oh I'm not particular, take your pick. It all tells us who you are.

[ReneeCA.]

richfeld. You have a right to your "enlightened" views, God knows!(Couldn't help myself)

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of it, right? Does that mean that it doesn't exist?

You know I feel sorry for people like you. I sense that something is truly missing from your life and in your heart.

I sense a bitter man without a close family upbringing who is still searching for that certain something in your life that is missing. A tender soul perhaps that understands you and has compassion for you and your apparent bitterness toward the world and religion.

Glad to have you as a secular Republican who votes with us Christian Conservatives anytime!

[richfeld]

grayjack: Actually, the fact you assume that anyone who isn’t a brainwashed Jesus freak must be a left wing ideologue is both revealing about you personally and the pitiful state of the Republican Party.

[ReneeCA.]

I forgot richfeld. Where is the scientific proof that we came from apes? So far as I have heard, this is no more then conjecture as scientific tests on ancient bones have so far not proven this tp be true.

[RiverKing]

richfeld:

Sorry, but I come down on the side of previous posters who have pegged you as a left-wing ideologue. What's more, I see in your near-hysterical denial of any religion a deep wish that you could believe. The true, self-confident atheist doesn't care whether others believe in God or not and certainly doesn't waste time trying to reason others out of their beliefs.

Let me leave you with one of my favorite lines: I will fight to my death to protect your right to say what you want; I will fight to your death to protect my right to ignore you.

And when I say "leave you", I mean just that. In keeping with my right to ignore you, I have already added you to my "Ignore List" so I won't be bothered in the future by your posts.

[ReneeCA.]

Riverking. Loved your first post as right on and thoughtfull, intelligent words. God Bless You!

[Ohiowoman]

Oh, yes, another new member who thinks the way to lead us to the light is by belittling and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him. Your rudeness is, in your words, "revealing about you personally".

[richfeld]

ReneeCa: You are a pathetically brainwashed Jesus freak and have the mental capacity of a child. You need professional help and shouldn’t be psychoanalyzing any free thinking adult. Yes, I’m angry that both of the major political parties have been hijacked by extremist elements and hope that the much discussed third party for moderates becomes a reality. You should stop reading the Bible and read On the Origin of Species instead.

RiverKing: Obviously, you are another amateur psychologist. I totally agree with Bill Maher’s speech at the conclusion of Religiolous. If religious brainwashing doesn’t end then the human race is likely to come to a premature end. I have a serious problem with the world’s most ignorant people deciding when the human race becomes extinct.

[Paulmarkar]

There is no positive proof of either evolution or the big bang and there are a lot of holes in each, that is why they're call THEORIES. If you have a video tape of either please show me. Tell your scientist buddies to create life, they can't. You can't prove your theories anymore than I can prove God. You choose to believe what ever you want, and I'll do the same. I would remind you however the consequences of you being wrong is a lot different than if I'm wrong. As far as the world ending is concerned I'm more worried about atheists than I am religions, after all Hitler, Stalin and Mao were atheists.

[ReneeCA.]

richfeld. I guess I hit a nerve!

You outed yourself beautifully by your own pathetic, bitter words which I was waiting for!

You are nothing but a troll, Leftist, Progressive, Pig in sheep's clothing.

I do have a childlike belief in God that is undeniable and I am not ashamed to admit it as a practicing Catholic.

I pity you!

[richfeld]

PaulMarker: Obviously, our public school system is miserably failing the youth of America. Evolution has been scientifically validated and is factual. The Big Bang is a theory supported by observable facts. The argument that the universe is so complex that there had to be a designer does not pass the scientific test required to even be considered a theory because there is no supporting evidence.

By the way, Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic and later confirmed as a soldier of Christ. In fact, your Church felt he was justified in killing the Jews for they deemed the Semites to be the killers of the mythical Jesus. Mao and Stalin did away with religion so that they could be worshipped as deities. Atheists don’t consider themselves to be deities.

ReneeCA: Anyone who knowingly clings onto a discredited primordial belief system is a shameless coward. I don’t pity someone like you who works at being pitiful. By disregarding science, you’ll never know how pitiful you truly are.

[Charie]

rich, old buddy, you've begun to bore me, but you're wrong on both counts. Big bang is a theory, just that and not proven.

Evolution ditto.

I am curious, though............. do you believe in man-caused "climate change", because if you do there are over 31,000 actual American scientists who will tell you different.

Science is ever-changing and I've seen multiple examples of it since I was of an age to be aware. Even, much to my dismay, T-rex isn't what they thought he was only 30 years ago. Sad, but true.

Just a few years ago scientists thought the only way you could perform miraculous medical cures was by using embryonic stem cells. Yesterday there was an announcement that liver disease was being cured by skin cells and a few months before Japanese scientists discovered how to make fake embryonic stem cells.

Science is ever-changing; only God remains unchanging.

[qrayjack]

Assuming that there is a purpose, albeit twisted and perverse, in the hate-driven left sending one of their goons here to name-call, one wonders what it could be? To take up space? To occupy time? To... learn something from us? Yes, that must be it. “Go forth my son amongst the wise and learn the truth.” See, they do have good intentions. Unfortunately the seekers of the source of our great wisdom are too stultifyingly dumb to know the truth when they stumble over it. Sigh.

[RW]

I see characters like this and am reminded of whomever said, (Einstein?) "if there were no God, Man would have invented Him anyway," or words to that effect.

Global Warming IS that invented religion and Al Gore is their god, carbon footprints are their mortal sins, carbon credits their communion, and going green their salvation.

These guys don't like admitting it. But there it is.

[clovers]

Richfield: My dear departed mother would have said, "If you can't play nicely, LEAVE THE ROOM and don't come back 'til you've learned some manners."

No one on the forum has denied your right to voice your opinion. Your beliefs are your own affair, whether they are supported by facts or not. Kindly extend the same courtesy to those who disagree with your position.

You have been insulting, rude, argumentative and overbearing. LEAVE THE ROOM!

LT

[SewingSusie]

Now that the :troll: has been banned, the cleaning lady can get busy!
Eeeeeeewwwwwwww, that's the nastiest troo-troo i've seen yet. Good thing i have no sense of smell, ja?
I pray that this feller finds God before he encounters Him face-to-face, and it's eternally too late.

[Charie]

But mo-o-o-o-m, I just started to have fun!



Oooo, RW, good one! :clap:

[greg]

And that's what we have as the typical liberal leftist? With those kinds of name-calling arguments? Children! Worse yet, having grown up intellects. And like all children, needing boundaries set by adults.

Global Warming IS that invented religion and Al Gore is their god, carbon footprints are their mortal sins, carbon credits their communion, and going green their salvation.As for this liberal religion, doesn't Al Gore have a massive carbon foot print mansion vs George Bush's tiny environmentally 'adherent' ranch house in Crawford? Didn't Dr. John P. Holdren scream about "Global Cooling" in the 1970s, with the Ehrlichs?

What's the common thread here? Money (Al Gore stands to make a lot of it, just like Michael Moore) and power, what with the liberals and communists jumping on the environmental bandwagon to run their Genesis 3:5b power trip over the rest of us....Earth Charter(inaction.org for one).

Darwinian Evolution? They still can't find the intermediate forms in the fossil record. Or, as in Dr. Duane T. Gish's provocative book title, Evolution: The Fossils Still Say No!.

Big Bang? Who was there to see it? Do we have enough evidence in present day to postulate a characterization back then?

Unfortunately the seekers of the source of our great wisdom are too stultifyingly dumb to know the truth when they stumble over it. Sigh.In the end, Hebrews 9:27, but, unfortunately, by then, it will be too late.

[RiverKing]

I'm not sure who banned richfeld but thanks to SewingSusie for letting us know that the banishment occurred. That prompted me to clean up my Ignore List and I found that 3 of the 4 entries had been banned. Makes me feel, what?, justified in having ignored those 3? As to the 4th, I guess I should remove him too since I can't recall now why I first added him to my Ignore List.

[greg]

richfield was a useful lesson on how we conservatives might interact with these kinds of children.

Because there's one heck of a lot of them out there, of any number of persuasions.

It does appear that the best way to deal with these children is to set this real world boundary, or limit, called "banned."

While that would set a boundary for civility in our Forum, we conservatives still need to deal with this otherwise. Thoughts?

Concerning Secular Republicans, fine. It's a free country (with what should be a sense of responsibility and understanding of history [how we got there] in order to keep these freedoms). And I echo RiverKing's posting #2 with the addition that we can vigorously debate the issues, as we started to do so in the first several pages of this enlightening thread.

[ReneeCA.]

I thought that this post was closed because I have a thing or two to say about the comments of that pitiful richfeld in regards to the Catholic church!

I am really tired of the misinformation I hear from many Jews who claim that Pope Pius turned his back on the slaughter of Jews.

Pope Pius X11 issued an encyclical "Summi Pontificatus" within a month of the Nazi invasion of Poland condemning the invasion surprising England and France. The fact is that the Church was responsible for saving 860,000 Jews between 1941-1944.

After WW11, Congress, Golda Mier American Jewish society, and many other prominent Jews praised the Pope for his efforts to prevent or thwart the Jews.

Many Catholics risked their lives to stow away Jews in their homes and try to get them away from the Nazi's.

Somehow recently we have seen revisionist history of what really happened during this time.

My dearest friend by the name of Salamon, was a survivor and still has the numbers tattooed on his arm. He was very young when interred and later on his release fell in love with a girl that was raised by my mother with my other sisters after being thrown out of her house in high school by a cruel mother. She is Catholic and he is Jewish and have two daughters after many happy years of marriage.

Oh that we all could get along with each other so well as they do!

[Paulmarkar]

richfield did make one valid point: PaulMarker: Obviously, our public school system is miserably failing the youth of America. He is obvious proof of that. If the liberals don't get their way they jump up and down and scream, then try to belittle you to make themselves feel better about their pathetic lives. That's why they are so pathetic, the Bible says it best. There are none so blind that they will not see.

[Engineer Scott]

Most of our Founding Fathers questioned the divinity of Jesus,

I'm mostly glad he's gone, but I'm surprised nobody else caught this one. Of the original signers of the Declaration, 29 of them had ministerial degrees. And of course there's that quote from none other than George Washington that in vain would a person call himself a patriot that wasn't also a Christian. And the speech that ended with "give me liberty or give me death," it was spoken in a church. Yep- sure were a lot of skeptics then... NOT!

Scott Todd

[lranders]

Richfeld, whatever you are, you are funny. I also hope you go before God right before I do, I might have a chance that way!!

[Paulmarkar]

Iranders I hope you're joking. I don't even want to be in the same line as people like richfield. He'll be judged before the Great White Throne and there'll be only one judgement for such as him.