My letter to Rev. England of the Episcopal Church

[azwhitewolf]

This is a copy of the letter I wrote to the current leader of the Epsicopal Church. I just can't stand this whole thing anymore.

You can email him at dengland@episcopalch urch.org


Rev. England,

Incredible. *I never believed this would happen.

How in the WORLD can you appoint a gay man as a Bishop of the church? *

The Bible is explicit about homosexuality and God’s view on it. *What could have possibly caused you to ignore God's warning, past punishments and future effects on your congregation?

The Bible is ALSO very clear about “causing children to stumble” (something about a millstone around your neck…), which is CLEARLY what the Bishop has attempted so far with his “OUT”reach website pairing up sexual deviants with kids as YOUNG AS 12! * Tell me, Rev. England. *Would YOU put your kids on a website with an annonymous man offering his view on homosexuality that you never met, don’t know, but enjoys talking to your kid about gay sex and love?

If your answer is "yes", seek professional counseling. *No, really.

If your answer is "no", then why would you inflict that on your congregation?

Some of us “Christians” have been fighting against dirty men wanting to “discuss all things sexual” with kids over the internet for years. *Forget the "alleged" porn links - Your new Bishop has demonstrated his desire to put kids in a compromising position in order to JUSTIFY and PROMOTE his sexual lifestyle. *And the Episcopal church APPROVED of this?! * THIS is the best man for the job? I suppose gay marriage is already on next year's agenda.

Jesus died so sinners could be forgiven, not so sinners could celebrate their sin openly. *Where'd the Gospel go? *Isn't that the POINT of the Bible, the Church, the Good News?

It may have passed in the eyes of your church, but certainly not in the eyes of God, or Christian families everywhere. *And I will NEVER support the efforts of the Episcopal Church again.

The Catholics may have child-molesters, but at least they don’t suggest that the “Holy Spirit guided them to accept it" by putting it up for a vote. *

Your church deserves the circus it has caused. *But the insanity it has inflicted on other actual-Christian churches that have stood against "popularity contests" like your mock-media-generating Bishop Elections will damage all legitimate Churches in the eyes of non-believers, athiests, and *agnostics... people you are SUPPOSED to be reaching for Christ.

Who will believe the Gospel when the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, yet the church embraces it? *That's what unbelievers find so unbelievable about believers - its the hypocritical leaders that cause the most damage. *Like the 67 votes for normalizing a biblical SIN!

Some call it "Outreach"... but I guess "OUT"reach means something completely different to you. *I can only cringe thinking that someday, the word "outreach" will be a reference to a bunch of homosexuals gathering, and not REACHING OUT to non-believers with the Truth of the Gospel like it meant BEFORE a pervert pastor like Robinson corrupted a traditional church term to fit an innuendo for his sexual lifestyle.

Maybe your future marijuana-smoking pastors might hold a "Pot" Luck luncheon. *

I can only thank you for being so public about this, so many Christians know that the Episcopal church is now the new Universal Gay Church of America, and that "Gay Christianity" is no longer the underground movement it should have stayed, thanks to your "simple majority". *Its obvious that you hate tradition, and embrace popular sin.

Jesus died in agony so you could be clean, and you used that to usher in perversion in your ranks. *I guess you'll answer to Him. *

But in the meantime, I'd appreciate a response also. *After all, until He comes back, I have to hear all about your decision and find a church that stands behind the Word of God, and not the pop-culture fad du'jour. *


AZWhitewolf@gopusa.c om

PS. *Seriously. *I expect an answer in weather or not you'd send your kids to a gay website to talk to gay adults about sex, because your colleagues don't seem to be too concerned.

[jonessa2]

<span style='font-family:tahoma'><span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>AZ, wow http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/exclamation.gif *You sure wrote a lot. *I am going to finish reading yesterday's threads---and then I am going to comment on your thread. *</span>

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>I believe that it is unacceptable for children to talk to anonymous people about gay issues. </span>

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>There is now one minister that can answer questions on this topic. *You will have more compassion regarding this issue if you would accept that people cannot help what they feel.
*
It is about biology. *

Instead of trying to garner the hispanic/mexican vote, people need to address the needs and issues of this strata of people.</span></span>
http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/it.gif

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]I am going to finish reading yesterday's threads---and then I am going to comment on your thread.
I welcome your comments, suggestions and criticisms.

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twothumbsup.gif

[navyblue]

Quote[/b] ]There is now one minister that can answer questions on this topic. *You will have more compassion regarding this issue if you would accept that people cannot help what they feel.

It is about biology. *


Biology? Excuse me sir! There is absolutely nothing in the human genome to support this! *There is no such thing as a homosexual gene! I suggest you go back and take Biology again.

Homosexuality is a psycological disorder. Heterosexuality is the way that the human race evolves. There can be no evolution with homosexuality. It is the principle of &quot;Natural Selection!&quot;

[noPEACEwithoutJUSTICE]

Quote[/b] ]There is now one minister that can answer questions on this topic. You will have more compassion regarding this issue if you would accept that people cannot help what they feel.

Like only Black people can teach Black History?

I know of several pastors who are VERY compassionate about &quot;feelings&quot; but they don't water-down the Gospel to accommodate &quot;feelings&quot; jonessa.

What if I &quot;feel&quot; like buggering little boys? I can't help how I feel, why don't you accept it?

Quote[/b] ]It is about biology.

A liberal lie. APA, AMA--they all jumped on board because they had members that were practicing homosexuals. It's not a mental illness anymore because a lot of people &quot;say&quot; it's normal.

Define &quot;a lot&quot;. There aren't the numbers they say there are.

There are probably an equal amount of practicing pedophiles--probably more--and some within their own ranks. Does that mean we should &quot;normalize&quot; pedophilia?

jonessa, you're going to have to come up with a better argument than &quot;because it feels good&quot; or the one word &quot;biology&quot;.

&quot;Biology&quot; would actually be an argument for the opposite view.

In &quot;biology&quot;, homosexuality is an aberration, not normal, unproductive, disease-causing and unnatural.

Do you just not want to hurt someone's &quot;feelings&quot;? Better that one be honest and hurt &quot;feelings&quot;, than change a moral code to accommodate sin and death.

[XNavyGunner]

I sent my own letter to Mr. England.

Sir,

I was baptized and raised in the Episcopal church and served as an altar boy until I went into the service. I used to be proud of my religion and its heritage, but now I am disgusted with the Episcopal church. The Epicopal Church has strayed far from the path of righteousness.

The election of Gene Robinson to bishop was a slap in the face to Christians everywhere. Mr. Robinson should have never been ordained in the first place. As a practicing homosexual he has not repented his sins and continues to practice a lifestyle that is destructive to not only his soul but to the Church itself.

When I was growing up, priests were supposed to set the example of how to live. I see now with an openly gay bishop the Church would rather teach secular humanism than scripture. Leviticus chapter 18 verse 22 states, &quot;Do not pratice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.&quot; Romans chapter 1 verses 26, 27 state, &quot;26 That is why God abandonded them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulgrd in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.&quot;


Since the Church has strayed so far from the teachings of God and the Bible I can no longer consider myself an Episcopalian. I do have one request of you before I finish. Please quit calling yourselves a Christian denomination. You are not. The Episcopal Church has now officially become a secualr humanist religion.

Sincerely,

Richard Hamrick

I wonder if I'll get a reply?

[pRIMrose]

This decision was truly a sad day for all the loyal and devoted Episcopalians. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif It will surely divide the members. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/shake.gif It's not enough that &quot;gays&quot; are welcome to participate in church activities ~ now they have to be in charge of the activities. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tqrolleyes.gif

[pRIMrose]

BTW ~ AZZ &amp; xNG ~ great letters. I hope you get a reply. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Terri]

Yes, they are great letters. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twothumbsup.gif

[AngelsRWorldChamps]

5 ways to get their attention

1 Stop attending the church
2 Stop giving money to the church
3 Write letters and ask the church for answers
4 Tell friends and family to boycott the church
5 Write letters to the editors of papers

I did this with the Caltholtic Church I will not attend or enter another church until they look at the molestation charges in the church.

[noPEACEwithoutJUSTICE]

Hey BRISK--

I would &quot;edit&quot; your advice--

1. FIND another church
2. Give money and time to THAT church
3. Write a letter to the church conference offices and tell them where you are NOW going
4. Invite your friends to come to your NEW church
5. Write LTTE's telling them of the church you now go to and the reasons you're going

Too many people--good Christians even--use a &quot;policy&quot; in their current mainline church as an excuse to leave. *If you like your specific church, remember: policies change, leadership changes, but it comes from within. Nothing can change without a &quot;catalyst&quot;--something that causes it to happen. In a church, it would probably come from within, unless what they were doing was illegal or seen as illegal (see Waco...catalyst = Janet Reno in that case).

Your advocating leaving without an alternative and without a fight starts to sound like all the Democrats who threaten to leave the country if a Conservative is elected president. *You stay and fight for things you believe in.

If the United Methodist Church Iowa Conference voted next year to accept homosexuals into the ministry, I would push for my church to &quot;cut itself off&quot; from the main church. *We pay apportionments to the UMC Conference, so I would start by withholding the apportionments (still collecting and setting them aside, just not giving them to the Conference). *I would then encourage other churches to do the same thing. *If the policies that were in direct contradiction to Scripture were not changed, I would push for the churches holding to Scripture to form a coalition, a conference of like-minded Methodists who would then direct apportionments to the new oganization.

The &quot;church&quot; is YOU. not some board or council of bishops telling you what to think and who to say is &quot;right&quot;. *They can go suck eggs, though eggs are probably not on their &quot;menu&quot;.

Does that mean the &quot;new&quot; church would not accept homosexuals? *No. *It means that homosexuals would have a place to come for healing, not a place they can go to be encouraged to stay sick. *How much sense does that really make? *

&quot;My lifestyle is causing me great pain and sickness, both physically and mentally, what should I do?&quot;

&quot;Well, pray that God will help you find the right &quot;partner&quot;, I guess. *I think there's a plan for the church to start handing out condoms...would that help? *Why don't you just come over here and sit a little closer, maybe I can help you figure it out...&quot;

Aberration will only breed MORE aberration. *Try telling your teenager to practice abstinence when even the church is advocating immorality...

[azwhitewolf]

X-NavyGunner...

I did receive a response:
Quote[/b] ]Dear Brother or Sister in Christ:

Many thousands of people have written to me concerning the election of Gene Robinson to be a bishop. Some are elated, others are dismayed. But most expressed their deep love and care for the church.
And thus, my disagreement begins. *I never read in the Bible where we are to be united by a &quot;group&quot; of people like a Church, instead we are bound by a common belief in a savior and a redemption of sin.

The whole concept of being united is the foundation of Christ, not the foundation of church. *
Quote[/b] ]The dignity and grace with which this debate was carried out in the convention of the Episcopal Church has been a witness to the fact that, as the Presiding Bishop has said, “We recognize Christ in each other.”
Matt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Luke 3:7-9 *He said therefore to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, &quot;You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? *Bear fruits that befit repentance , and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father' [or &quot;We are a large Christian Organization&quot; as a justification]; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.&quot;

Ttttttttttiiiiiiiiii iimmmmmmmbbbbbbbbeee eeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr !

Quote[/b] ]The unity of the church will depend on all of us concentrating more on those things on which we agree than on those we don’t.
So... &quot;let's not think about it and move along&quot;? *

Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Quote[/b] ]So thanks for taking the time to write. Keep praying for God’s church and for the world which so desperately needs to hear the gospel.

Which church is that? *Which church is spreading the gospel? *I know who worships the god of &quot;inclusion&quot;, but where's the gospel?

Quote[/b] ]Dan England

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE - PLEASE DO NOT REPLY

I knew not to expect any better.. but boy, I sure could hope...

[pcyrdad]

Quote[/b] ]THIS IS AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE - PLEASE DO NOT REPLY

Thank the Lord He doesn't respond in &quot;automated messages&quot;! We'd be in even worse trouble than we are right now. Besides, He wants us to reply...

Way to pick that apart and compare it to the Truth!

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Church leaders are always held, by God, to a higher standard. There are many in the Episcopal Church who are going to recognize that soon, especially those who say, &quot;We recognize Christ in each other,&quot; while subjecting God's people (not just Episcopalians... the world lumps us all together as one church, as ridiculous as it may seem in some cases) to this blatant perversion of God's Word! How are we supposed to reach people with this dark cloud over us?

I guess I'll stop here for now. The more I look at the state the world, and the church, is in, the more I realize Jesus is on His way back, and He'll be here soon. I've always believed He might wait another century or two, but I think He's about ready to call us all home real soon.

[XNavyGunner]

This is the same reply I received ver batem. I suppose they think people will forget about it when they're blown off.

[noPEACEwithoutJUSTICE]

Automated messages from the church! How precious. Makes you feel you were ministered to and that your concerns were being addressed. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif

Of course, I'm sure if you were able to arrange an actual appointment to speak to him face to face, the response would be SO much different than the automated one you received by email. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Actually, the automated message would probably show more sincerity and honesty than a face-to-face meeting.

I'm SO glad I can go back to Scripture to see how a REAL MAN spoke to his Disciples--to see how a REAL MAN took a stand against falsehoods and Pharisees--to see how a REAL MAN embodied Truth.

God, through Jesus, let &quot;men&quot; take His life because it was already a part of God's larger plan. It won't happen again. He died once, for all. There is no need for a re-match, and sin did not prevail.

So why give Sin a special seat at the Table? Why provide for it? Why cater to it? Because MAN does not want to let go of SIN. It's a &quot;control&quot; issue.

Homosexuals are hurting and the church wants to do something about it. The homosexuals tell the church, 'it's your fault for not accepting what we are'.

The church has always accepted sinners. What it has not always done is accept SIN.

[Charie]

At least you got a message in return, even though it was automated. *I sent 2 letters to the United Methodist Church remonstrating with them for having bishops in the church, active and retired, who have been performing &quot;marriages&quot; between members of the same sex for the past 10 or so years which is against Gods law and the church's law. *And also, asking how a Christian religion could permit their bishops and members to *advocate Communist groups.

That's all you could hear were the crickets chirping in the empty silence from my church.

I no longer give money to the general fund. *It all goes to the building fund and the youth program which isn't too satisfactory, but at least I'm not contributing directly to the general fund.

nPwJ and AZWW: * Have you looked up Bishop Melvin Talbert?

[noPEACEwithoutJUSTICE]

Quote[/b] ]Bishop Melvin Talbert discusses the recent commercial he appears in with Janeane Garafalo, broaching such issues as: the United Methodist Church's position on war; why he choose to confront the issue this way; and invites United Methodists to be in conversation with congressional leaders and the president.

Janeane Garumph-fellow?

&quot;Why he choose..&quot; http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Oh brother...

The individual churches need to start coming together and challenging the piss-poor actions of the broader &quot;church&quot; and questioning the use of gift-funds by the general conference.

We lost a young member at our church because of Bishop Talbert's stand. I think the kid was looking for a reason to sleep in on Sunday--

...you know go to the Church of St. Mattress of A Sealy...

...but he also was in support of the war effort and the young soldiers defending th einterests of the country.

Those soldiers are accomplishing a better and more worthwhile mission that the &quot;United&quot; Methodist Church has done in Iraq EVER. Talk about a Christian witness!! Clothing, feeding, defending, protecting, freeing--the church seems dead next to that--BECAUSE IT IS...Spiritually and Physically DEAD for lack of vision...

Definitely dead for the lack of recognizing a &quot;good thing&quot; in taking the fight to Iraq.

[Idpatriot]

WOW, AZ....what a great letter!!! I agree with everything you wrote.

NoPeace, I agree with your ammendment to what to do if one is unhappy with a certain denomination. Not ALL churches advocate or appease these things.

This topic brings up an interesting conversation I had with my dear hubby last time he was home. He is not a believer in Christ, was never raised in church, so I have a pretty good perspective in what non-believers see and how they percieve &quot;Christians&quot; and the Christian community! Non-believers who have no idea of Church history and how different denominations came about, see Christian Churches as being pretty much the same. So, when the Catholic Church has the controversy it has had with Priests who have molested kids and were not dealt with properly, when the Episcopal Church has an openly gay bishop, non-believers see this as total hypocrisy!

I tried to explain to my husband that the path of the church has not gone exactly as God planned, or as Jesus set it up to go. Unfortunately, because humans are fallible and full of sin, mistakes are made, bad things happen, and hypocrisy occurs. BUT, individuals cannot let that affect their own personal faith and their own personal relationship with Christ! Each individual will be judged accordingly, and that is between them and God.

What is happening to churches of all denominations considered &quot;Christian&quot; is an attack on Christianity. It is only fueling the feelings of non-believers that it is just a bunch of hooey and that it causes nothing but confusion and disdain. This is not what God intended, and it is very sad!

As for homosexuality being biological....I just don't know about that. I've not seen scientific proof to show that is true. I believe something may occur, because I've seen it in some children at a young age, but with God anything can be overcome, and nobody says it has to be a permanent condition that can't be dealt with. I also believe that there is a higher percentage of homosexuals that are doing it just because it is an experimental thing, or because it is a &quot;trendy&quot; thing right now....I've seen stories of people that do this! Bottom line is, the Bible is very explicit about it being an abomination, just as adultery or any other sin. I do not believe that a known, practicing adulterous man should be a priest or leader of a church either. That is a position for a man who is Godly, who lives as Jesus lived, and who is a good example of what one should live like that follows Christ.

Denise