McCain More Conservative Than His Image

[Terri]

By LIBBY QUAID
Associated Press
April 14, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The independent label sticks to John McCain because he antagonizes fellow Republicans and likes to work with Democrats.

But a different label applies to his actual record: conservative.

The likely Republican presidential nominee is much more conservative than voters appear to realize. McCain leans to the right on issue after issue, not just on the Iraq war but also on abortion, gay rights, gun control and other issues that matter to his party's social conservatives.

The four-term Arizona senator, a longtime member of the Armed Services Committee, criticized the earlier handling of the war but has been a crucial ally in President Bush's effort to increase and maintain U.S. forces in Iraq.

More (http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/april/0414_mccain_image1.s html)

[jack virtus]

sorry, I'm not buying this at ALL! Being pro amnesty and aginst the Bush tax cut is conservative? That's like saying Hillary is more honest and ethical than her image.

[FlaJim]

Democrats are trying to change the perception of McCain..
Including the author of this article.

McCain's conservative ratings in the early years was in the high 90s. His lifetime rating has dropped to 84%. Latest year was 56%, I believe. Could be lower after this campaign is over.

Any conservative would argue that he's far more liberal than his image. Or that he simply doesn't care as long as he gets a good headline and makes a new 'friend'.

Signing on with the global warming hoaxers is just the latest example of his willingness to adopt any stance that he thinks will help him achieve power - and make new friends, of course

[Terri]

You can see McCain's votes (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain.htm) on issues here.

There is no doubt that he is far more conservative than either of the Democrats although certainly not as conservative on many issues as I would like a candidate to be.

On some issues he's very conservative but we haven't heard as much about those issues as we have about the ones where he's not conservative.

Anyway, check it out for yourselves instead of listening to AP or to individuals who may not have it right.

[Thundercat505]

(But a different label applies to his actual record: conservative.)

sorry but I agree with jv. anyone that would work with the dumbs to come up with a bill that would give amnesty to criminals doesn't have enough of a conservative record to wipe out the many times he has voted on or come up with a liberal type deal and voted against any kind of conservative thing.

sorry, just still a liberal trying to tell every one that he has a change of heart and becoming a conservative.

[Terri]

Many conservatives would just as soon have Obama as McCain and will be unable to see any difference.

I realize that. They'll just have to do whatever they have to do this year.

I provided a link to votes for those conservatives who are interested in multiple issues and who might rather have 50-70% across the full range of issues than 0%.

I'd like to have a 90-100% conservative running for president too but that's not reality in 2008. Actually, it's unlikely that will ever be reality. Instead of giving Congress to the Dems last year conservatives should have voted. Gonna need those conservatives that got voted out to hold the next president in check. Too bad, but that's what sitting out can do to us.

[de Seis]

Yes, I can understand the point here, but who wants to see a third Clinton administration? That Barack Hussein Obama's would be worse than even a Hillary one, but that's not going to happen.

McCain is erratic and needs to be kept away from the likes of Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold, but next to HRC or BHO, he looks totally acceptable IMO.

[Sgt_Relic]

I find a few areas of disagreement in the article and with some of the comments. First, it is disingenuous to refer to McCain as a conservative. He will vote with conservatives from time to time but the only proper classification for him is moderate republican. Let's not engage in self deception.

Secondly, in my opinion, the democrats took control of congress not because conservatives stayed home but because moderate republicans voted for democratic candidates who were chosen because of their right leaning positions. The election of Webb here is Virginia is one example.

My constitutional responsibility as a citizen requires me to make the most informed decision possible and to vote for the candidate who best represents a true faith to the constitution. I will do my duty. However that does not mean that I will necessarily be voting for a democrat or a republican in November.

[Terri]

Certainly every voter has the right to vote however he likes or not to vote at all.

I realize it's difficult to blame the people when it's so much more fun to blame the RNC or some shadowy figure but the ultimate responsibility lies with the people.

Every single bad actor in Congress, including Jim Webb, got there because some people voted for him and other people chose not to vote at all, or to vote for some 3rd party yahoo who had no chance at all of winning.

[Thundercat505]

(terri---Many conservatives would just as soon have Obama as McCain and will be unable to see any difference.)

actually I don't want any of them since they are all liberal to one degree or another. the thing here is that once again, you have the choice of three evils or three liberals as some want to say and we are having to decide who is the lesser liberal.

currently mccain is the least liberal of this bunch but it really doesn't give many of us hope that he will be a good president. two I know we can't afford to have voted in and the third has often voted against any conservative motion that would give this country a big boost in the britches and moral.

so calling him even remotely conservative isn't correct, unless you want to get "politically correct", then he would be classed in the "more moderate conservative" class than the other two. soooo----although I don't want him in I will have no choice but to back him no matter what he is classed by the "elite" or the people who want to whitewash how he has voted to make his image better. those who have looked at his record know the truth and know how much better he is than the other two, which is a no brainer of a choice considering the choices we have.

[Terri]

(terri---Many conservatives would just as soon have Obama as McCain and will be unable to see any difference.)
Yep, that's what I said.

actually I don't want any of them since they are all liberal to one degree or another.
Yes, I already said that.

so calling him even remotely conservative isn't correct,
No, that statement isn't correct. There are issues where he is quite conservative and some of them are very important.

The two most important ones are Iraq/war on terror/defense and spending. The man doesn't do earmarks and has promised to veto any bill that contains them.

Now, you folks have told me here for years that those two issues were important to you. Now, I guess they aren't.

I've only named two issues although there are more. But let's say there are only those two. Is two not more than zero? Especially, when they are so important to the very survival of this country?

Never mind, I'll answer that myself. To some of you they are not and I realize that. To many conservatives it's all or nothing. You'll likely get nothing and then you'll spend the next 8 years complaining about it.

Do I like McCain. No, of course not. I despise him if you want to know the real truth.

But I am not so blind as to say there is no difference.

No, I'm not happy about our choices either but they are what they are. We cannot change it by staying home, by voting third party, or by being angry for the next 8 1/2 years. We can choose to take one of the above routes and suffer more or we can vote for McCain and suffer a little less.

:realitybites:

We each make our own choice.

[Thundercat505]

(Do I like McCain. No, of course not. I despise him if you want to know the real truth.)

on this, the war, and the earmarks WE AGREE. however the main things on people's minds in first, second and third places are (your pick on where they stand in line)---illegal immigration, fuel prices and the economy. at least that is the way I look at it and granted my opinion may not be correct and I won't claim that it is, but everywhere I go mostly what I hear about are these three items. often the fourth is the war but most don't complain too loudly about that.

anything else takes second fiddle to these three major items. these three affect us at home more than any of the others. earmarks are supposed to help but then the corruption takes over and very little of it actually does any good.

we already know where he stands on immigration, he has given a hint about the fuel prices by wanting to cut fed. fuel tax this summer but we have not much of an idea yet on the economy. maybe he will be pretty good on that but then it may take having someone who can nudge him in the right direction on this.

so stated, we have the lesser of three liberals to vote for and I for one will not stay home and not vote even though I don't like the choices. this happens with every election whether it be for city council, mayor, governor or what ever when someone is running for some position. but at least we have those choices and can make up our own minds about them and speak our minds rather than having some idiot up there ready to cut our head off!

[Terri]

however the main things on people's minds in first, second and third places are (your pick on where they stand in line)---illegal immigration, fuel prices and the economy.
I agree with the economy although I think it's a contrived issue to a great degree. Will Mama or Obama do better?

Fuel prices are important, more so to low income voters. Well, McCain wants to suspend gas taxes. I've heard nothing from Mama and Obama.

Immigration seems to have disappeared everywhere except in the most conservatives circles such as here. If you think McCain is bad let me tell you that you haven't seen anything yet compared to what either Mama or Obama will do to open up those borders.

Oh well. We can take your issues instead of the ones I offered.

Please explain how you get a better deal on any of them from Obama or Mama than you will get from John McCain.

Believe me, I know it's a sad situation. I haven't actually listed what McCain will give me compared to Mama-Obama but let's say it's 30-40%.

So, should I take the 30-40% or should I take 0%.

Really tough choice. Nothing is always better than something. Right?

[Thundercat505]

(Please explain how you get a better deal on any of them from Obama or Mama than you will get from John McCain.

Believe me, I know it's a sad situation. I haven't actually listed what McCain will give me compared to Mama-Obama but let's say it's 30-40%.)

you don't get a better deal in this case than mccain. he is the least liberal of them all from what I have seen so will have to take him with a grain of salt well above the others. at least with him there is a small chance that he will do the right thing with the border. there is a chance that he will do the right thing with the economy where we know the other two are too mind set against anything that will do this country any good and turn us around from the recession, so they are a non-issue and with their mouthing off are losing votes so fast that they almost might as well drop out. but it will still be an interesting ride won't it???

don't even try to figure up what you would get from mccain above the other two because it would either drive you crazy, give you a migraine or backfire in your face if he does an about face on an almost given. LOL.

he would have to come up well above the other two no matter how it washes.

but I think I can safely say that just about everyone here thinks it is a crappy deal!!

[SomeDude]

Looks to me like the word "Conservative" has been hijacked by Libertarians, Ron Paul nutters, Global Warmists, and Communist China lovers. So therefore I am no longer a conservative, I am a Republican.

[papajaxxx]

Compared to Hillary and Barack, McCain is conservative, and he is conservative on most issues. Unfortunately, he thinks like a politician and has this aire of superiority, and actually believes the government is the solution to all problems...this puts him in the liberal camp many times.

Again, the same old cliche: He's the lesser of the evils.

Now, you folks have told me here for years that those two issues were important to you. Now, I guess they aren't.


Yea, but we can't make a good argument if you hold us to our word. :D

[ontopofit]

Well here's how I feel. McCain is the Republican candidate because he was told by the rich Republican deal makers that if he cooperated with Bush, he would get his turn. It's now his turn.

McCain will finish what Bush started -- that is, flood the country with illegals; build the north american union; and as he is a member of Council on Foreign Relations, move us closer to a one world government.

But heck - vote or don't vote - you can't fight prophesy!

[jackbenimble]

The two most important ones are Iraq/war on terror/defense and spending. The man doesn't do earmarks and has promised to veto any bill that contains them.


I agree that Hillobama is far more liberal then McCain.

But McCain's suppossed fiscal conservative credentials mainly result from his demagoguery on earmarks. I don't like earmarks but they are a trivial part of our total spending.

It is easy to sound tough on spending when you are blasting a 20 billion bridge to nowhere. But it is very tough for me to give McCain any credibility as a fiscal conservative when he is trying to saddle us with $200+ billion dollar shamnesty. That is an order of magnitude worse. And McCain is also pushing for one of the most expensive pieces legislation ever in the form of his very dubious global warming bill.

A fiscal conservative he is not.

Regards,
Jack

[Terri]

The choice isn't between Ronald Reagan and John McCain.

It's between Obama, Mama and John McCain.

Are we to believe Obama or Mama is more fiscally conservative?

It must be nice in the land of how it should be. Unfortunately, I keep waking up in the land of what is.

:realitybites:

[STEELMAN]

When all is said and done I'm voting for McCain because I won't like living under an Obama or Mama presidency.

[greg]

Agreed with Terri's postings as just plain reality and common sense for conservatives for what Presidential candidates that we actually have, as opposed to what we would have wanted to have. And it would help our self-governance knowledge if we looked up Terri's "ontheissues.org" posting about just how conservative and where, is McCain, or not, now, versus Obama and Mama. We would need it when (hopefully) it comes time to firewall his liberal streaking--because it'll help our predicting them when bills get introduced in Congress (that GOPUSA "Online Activist" 'megavote' e-mail alert will help us keep tabs, along with other conservative organizations' alerts).

Two additional points:

We conservatives had more, much more, conservative Presidential candidates than Rudy McRomBee.

I'd say that our aggregate support, or lack thereof, of these conservative candidates reflects right poorly on us grass roots conservatives. And we can't blame the date order of the Republican primaries either for why they dropped out of the race, one by one. How many of us supported our preferred non-Rudy McRomBee conservative candidate with putting our $$ where our mouth is. Any complaining now about McCain's liberal streaking is three-fingered reflective on the complainer (i.e., for every finger pointed at McCain's liberalism, three fingers point right back at the complainer).

I hope conservatives across America, given that McCain is elected President, would take some time out of their doing their own thing (yes, that includes family, job, and avocations), to spend the four years minus to find, cultivate, and support conservative Presidential candidates for 2012, depending on who McCain's running mate is. (McCain has stated by implication that such a running mate must be ready to take over--age issue: McCain may have only one term.) If Obama or Mama gets elected President, then we conservatives end up using our family, job, and avocation time fighting for our very legal existence. Do we see the liberal behavioral trending here? based on the behavior of the liberal Democratically controlled 110th Congress??

Second point: Preamble--McCain is much more adherent to the various conservative world views of national survival import than either Obama or Mama.

But, just like last year into this year with this liberal Democratically controlled 110th Congress, and President Bush's shamnesty / NAU / SPP attempts (we lost on the prescription drug anti-fiscal conservative attempt), we conservative grass roots will have to lay into the 111th and 112th Congresses with the constant fervor of a sharp-eyed hawk after liberal prey. Our practice on the 110th Congress stopping shamnesty, antiFairness Doctrine, anti-conservative grass roots lobbying, ad nauseum will be put to continuous use after this year. Because we know that McCain has much more liberal streakings than Bush. Take a look at this AIM characterization (http://www.aim.org/aim-report/who-is-influencing-john-mccain/).

And again, there is NO ROOM for any conservative grass roots whining about how much time that takes away from doing our own thing, and all that rot. It is about time we conservatives really practice our self-governance citizenship between elections, especially with the ease of the internet, conservative talk radio, and our GOPUSA "Online Activist" tremendous facilities. Bothering to vote is just the first part of self-governance conservatism (if we want any of our conservatism to exist at all).

And, for those of us who are blessed with kids, it would be a great exercise, especially for home schooled kids, in American civics, and a great mutual learning. And it will make come alive the public school civics and US history (if any exists, and if not liberal-perverted, or else we parents show them the real life deal) for our kids.

Or would we rather work like heck to keep any of our conservatism of all stripes from being declared illegal while we work like heck on 2 to 3 full time jobs just to pay the wage garnishments that Obama and Mama is sure to put on to pay for their huge communist government programs while our families strive to keep from eating vacuum for dinner.

Terri is to the point. And entirely correct. I tend to be rather lengthily <sic> graphic, but I find that the behavioral trending of the 110th Congress supports what I think will happen when combined with a communist President, and we know that HillBilly is communist, based on their record, Obama is communist based on his clear and present upbringing and record in the Illinois and US Congress to date, and both are entirely supportive of the IslamoFascist cause based on their refusal to firewall it in Iraq, and I suspect, Afghanistan also regardless of what those two liars say, however smooth talking or not.

Also, neither Obama nor Mama have the experience to be Senator, let alone President, based on their track record, consistency of presentation (especially what they say), and constantly self-contradictory positions throughout their campaigns. Obama's knowledge of national aggregate economics is just plain atrocious and quite characteristic of a narrow-minded single track communist. (http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/lkudlow/2008/lk_04241.shtml) Not surprised, considering Obama's upbringing, that he tries very hard to cover up with his smooth talking charming reason sounding mouth. Our Forum has got an incredibly lengthy and detailed track record of all these contentions for both Obama and Mama.

What Obama and Mama do have is this tremendous ego-laden entitlement attitude, which comes out in various ways from each of them. I personally hope that their egos are such that they both battle it out like Roman gladiators, so we grass roots conservatives might have another four years to get our own act together about what it takes to have and SUPPORT conservatism in our national (and state & local) self-governance, while practicing the same in between elections.

So which do we conservative grass roots would rather want for our family, career, avocation, and self-governance citizenship lives next year for the next four years?

We'll all find out in a little over 5 months--just how serious about our conservatism that we, aggregately, are.