Contact Disney, Miramax-NO to Moore 9-11 Film

[jonalvy44]

Contact Miramax and Disney about Michael Moore 9-11 Film!!

http://www.chronwatch.com/featured/contentDisplay.asp?a id=2667


"Michael Moore, the New Rat at Disney?"

Posted by Gary Waltrip
Monday, May 12, 2003



THE NEW RAT AT DISNEY?



Apparently, the Walt Disney Co. is going into the Propaganda business.



From the DRUDGE REPORT:



The WALT DISNEY CO. is set to spend millions financing a new explosive Bush-bashing documentary from Michael Moore [BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE] -- a documentary which claims bin Laden was greatly enriched by the Bush family!

DISNEY, via subsidiary MIRAMAX, has agreed to cover the production costs, said to be in the millions, of Moore's planned FAHRENHEIT 911.

"The primary thrust of the new film is what has happened to the country since Sept. 11, and how the Bush administration used this tragic event to push its agenda," Moore explains.

FAHRENHEIT 911 will be released during the upcoming presidential election cycle.



http://www.chronwatch.com/featured/contentDisplay.asp?a id=2667




Contact Disney with your concerns at:



Walt Disney Corporation
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521
Phone: (818) 560-1000
FAX: (818) 560-1930
Online Map: Walt Disney Headquarters
Web site: http://www.disney.com
Post Message To Disney: Comments and Concerns


Contact info for Miramax Film Corp is:


Miramax Film Corp.

375 Greenwich Street

New York, NY 10013

212-941-3800

212-941-3836 Fax

Andrew.T.Robbins@mir amax.com

Harvey.Weinstein@mir amax.com



Dear Miramax:

I find this to be truly disturbing and patriotic Americans will not pay to see such garbage! Michael Moore is an anti-American puke that does not deserve a penny of our money and will only defile the memory of the victims of 9-11. We will see to it that if this film is made, it will not be financially successful here in America. We will picket the theatres if need be. The line has been drawn, we will no longer tolerate this type of behavior from our entertainers. It is not acceptable. Do Not Tread On America.

(PABAAH is circulating this info on the internet)



Jon Alvarez
Syracuse, NY
PABAAH: Patriotic Americans Boycotting Anti-American Hollywood
(Become a Member)
Why we fight:
http://home.attbi.com/~sept11/
Visit Alvy's forum: http://groups.msn.com/AlvysForum
Bush Country
www.bushcountry.org

[azwhitewolf]

Ahhhh.. here's MY letter.

Dear Michael Eisner; *

You've used propaganda films in the past with much success. *Should I be surprised one bit that your hands would be in the trash to find someone like Michael Moore? *

Many people are beginning to realize that Disney is not the family-friendly entity that Dear Old Walt intended. *Instead, the following facts are beginning to come out:

ABC’s™ Relativity has shown what is perhaps the most passionate lesbian sexual encounter so far on network TV.

ABC's Ellen was the first lesbian kiss on network TV.

Danzig, an occultic rock band, was signed to a Disney record label. Their music is laced with satanic themes.

Disney helped underwrite the 1993 Hollywood benefit for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Disney signed Martin Scorsese, director of The Last Temptation of Christ, Casino, Taxi Driver and many other hard-edged films to a 4-year-contract. *Oh, but under the MIRAMAX label. *

Disney hired a convicted child molester, to direct its movie Powder.

Mark Gill, the president of Miramax Films, a wholly-owned Disney subsidiary, admitted that his company thrives on racy, often violent promotion for its movies.

Priest (Miramax) is a pro-homosexual movie which depicts five Catholic priests as dysfunctionals and blames their problems on Church teachings. One priest is a homosexual; a second an adulterer; a third an alcoholic; a fourth demented; and the fifth just plain mean and vicious. The film is blatantly anti-Christian.

Other objectionable films from Disney subsidiaries included Dogma (homosexuality), Chasing Amy (lesbianism), Pulp Fiction (sex & violence), Color of Night (sex), Clerks (graphic language), Chicks in White Satan (lesbianism), Lie Down with Dogs (homosexuality), The House of Yes (incest).

Which would you take YOUR daughter, son, nephew or niece to see? *I mean, really, it's "Disney!"

Disney/Miramax originally purchased and intended to distribute Kids, the pornographic movie about early teen sex and drug abuse. Miramax later formed an independent company to distribute the film. It was rated NC-17 (formerly X) by the MPAA.

So please, do whatever you need to do. *Try to spend BILLIONS of dollars on this movie to make sure it's a financial success. *Create special effects, like when Moore "chopped-and-pasted" Charton Heston's speech to intentionally mis-quote him. *Please spend every available penny, and whatever you do, don't with-hold Moore from showing his hatred for America under the name "Disney". *Perhaps more people will investigate and find what I have already learned through this: *Disney is not for families anymore. *Your secrets are beginning to surface.

Sincerely,

AZWW
(plays the part of himself)

[jonalvy44]

wow...good info. We may have to step up the pressure on Disney...as ABC is also running with the sitcom starring Garofalo.

[bbehling]

It is truly disturbing that the wealthy minority has overwelmed the Government of this country. It is truly disturbing tht there is now a ruling class in this country. It is truly amazing how history repeats itself, American Revolution, French Revolution, revolutions throught Europe in the 19th century. It is truly depressing how ideas those revolutions were fought for, freedom from oppression, freedom from government tryanny, fredom of speech, are now being reversed to what they were during days of absolutive monarchial control.

Unless......

American Citizens wake up and see the truth and take control of the government once again and Republicans return to the ideals they were originaly founded on. Small goverments (the republicans of the reconstruction period - post civil war - did not believing in giving governments funds to rebuild the south, they left it to the private sector and churches), freedom for races, colors, and creeds(Lincoln was republican, remember? Remember he wanted to send all slaves to Africa if they so whished to do so before he was assainated?), and to not get involved in other countires affairs.

Wasn't the Clinton administration criticized by the New Republicans and neo-conservatives for stationing more American troops through out the world then there has ever been? If a true Republican is an isolationist, why do we fight other peoples wars? Why should we not use our Defense forces to protect American civilians? Why are they sent to foreign countries to protect other people and interests that 99 percent of the people in this country have no control over, care about, or sometimes even know about?

Time to be American's again, dear folks. Stand up against the ruling class, throw some tea bags into the harbor, and tell the neo-conservatives we will not be tread upon!

[Terri]

Welcome to the forum, bbehling!

You've covered a lot of ground in your post.

I'll just comment on the last paragraph. I have no toleration whatsoever for the labeling that is currently going on in the Republican party.

There is a good Op-ed posted in our Political section. I recommend it to all.

Neocons, Paleocons and Other-Cons: Can't We Just Get Along? (http://gopusa.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.pl?act=ST; f=23;t=3374)

[jack-o]

LOL

I sense a bit of angst here, folks, what seems to be the problem? * *Maybe I can help. *

If Mr. Moore's films are such garbage as you describe, then absolutely no one will go to see them. * As far as I can see, there's no way that anyone's going to pay to see a film that's just lousy, so why don't we just stand back and let the invisible hand do it's job? *

I'm sure that everyone will agree with me that the market is the best judge of all things, we can surely trust that it will see the end of *Mr. Moore and the film that he peddles. * We're trusting it to save us from everything else, I see no need for an exception here. *

Don't know if any of you saw Mr. Moore's last film, but it really made me proud to be an american. * I shiver every time I think about the love I feel for this country, where a man can say what he thinks by posting anonymously without ever having to speak with another person or defend his point of view. *

This is truly the promised land, what else could I ask for?

Pinch me, I think I'm dreaming...

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag4.gif

[iansays]

Why do I care what Moore says about Bush? He (and Disney) has a right to put out whatever material they think will make money.

Calling Moore names won't change anything. Neither will blind partisan patriotism. If you don't want Moore to make money, don't go see the film. Make your views known to Disney; if you have problems with the films they make, the themes portrayed, or the morals you believe they infer, tell them. And don't go see Disney movies.

Writing a letter calling someone an 'anti-American puke' will only (well-deservedly) get you labeled as a zealot. Zealots can make their voices heard in the short term, but if you want long term results, examine the issues, make informed choices, and let the people in charge (both at Disney and in Washington) hear from you.

I'm not a big fan of Moore, but people like him are needed to promote debate and free discourse of ideas. The people in Iraq didn't have that freedom, and if we believe we are giving it to them, we must also believe that in promoting debate of ourselves and our government we can only add to the legacy of the victims of 9-11, not defile them.

[Terri]

Welcome to the forum, iansays and jack-o.

You are both forgetting one thing.

Freedom of speech and freedom to spend our money where we want works just as well for conservatives as it does for liberals.

Enjoy Michael Moore and Disney.

We'll write our letters which is our right.

[iansays]

Thanks for the welcome, Terri.

I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I *strongly* urge anyone with opinions to make those opinions heard with both voices/letters and wallets. I know I practice that philosophy, even though at times, I wonder how much good it does.

As I said, I'm not a fan of Moore. I'm really not familiar with his movie(s?) or book(s?). I am a fan of free and frank dialogue, and whether it's Michael Moore or Lew Rockwell or Rush Limbaugh, I feel a need try and listen impartially, use my own experience and try to make informed decisions about where to spend my time, energy, and money.

Every day I read stories and opinions from web sites and news organizations around the world; ones that lionize neo-conservatism, others that worship far-left liberals. Only when taken as a whole and listening to all sides do I feel I can make informed decisions (and sometimes, even then, I change my mind after a while!*).

I'd take someone to task just as quickly (and have) for calling some members of our administration a 'jewish cabal' just as quickly as calling Moore an 'anti-American puke.' Both serve only to cloud issues with emotion and divisiveness, which are the tools people use when they can't confer some cogent substance on a situation.

----
* an example is my (fairly) recent change of opinion on the 2nd Amendment. Growing up in the south I hunted often, but even then, never really understood the position of the NRA and others that we needed to protect the right to bear arms (or, more precisely, the right to have the government make sure that no one infringed on the right we had to do so), even if they were assault weapons or Saturday-night-specials. I've since come to realize that (in my opinion), the 2nd Amendment was put in place specifically to insure that the population had access, as a last resort, to use those weapons in the event that thier government had been reduced to tyranny.

I don't imply that that has, or will happen; I mean it as an example of my thought process and how, over time, my opinions have changed.

By the way, I don't own any guns today, nor do I plan on it. At least not until I can retire to my cabin in the woods, where I might like to hunt for my food once again.

[iansays]

Just an FYI, "Harvey.Weinstein@mi ramax.com" comes back with a 505 (message was not delivered) error. It does say something about the mail servers being upgraded at Disney:

"The Walt Disney Company and its affiliates are in the process of an e-Mail system upgrade. The person you intended to send this message to may have had their Internet e-Mail address changed, or it may be unavailable for a short
time as part of this process."

so this may be temporary.

[Terri]

Quote[/b] ]I hope I wasn't misunderstood.

No, don't worry about it. It's been a long day. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hang around awhile. I think you will find some good discussions here and we certainly don't expect everyone to walk in lockstep.

[rellybois]

AZWHITEWOLF -- I WAS JUST WONDERING, HOW IS MICHAEL MOORE'S FILM DEFILING THE MEMORY OF THE VICTIMS OF 9/11? IT IS A DOCUMENTARY DETAILING THE EFFECTS OF AN EVENT ON THE COUNTRY. DOES THAT MEAN THAT ANY DOCUMENTARY ON CNN OR FOX ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF 9/11 IS DEFILING THE MEMORY OF ITS VICTIMS? I AM JUST CONFUSED AND I AM HOPING YOU CAN CLEAR THIS UP.

PS: YOU SEEM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH ISSUES PERTAINING TO HOMOSEXUALITY BEING ACKNOWLEDGED AND DISCUSSED. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO BE AFRAID OF?

[jonalvy44]

Excellent News!!

The Mouse has come to it's senses!! I just spoke with Disney CEO Michael Eisner's secretary, she was very familiar with the Moore controversy and she told me that Mr. Eisner has decided that while they and Miramax WERE considering a movie project, they have decided that it is NOT something they would want to be associated with!!

So not only has Mel Gibson and IKON Productions shunned the vile Mr. Moore, now Disney/Miramax has as well! This is a major victory and great news for proud Americans everywhere!

We will not forget the victims of 9-11. Nor will we allow their memories to be tarnished by Michael Moore.

Contact Info For Disney Studios: (818) 560-1000 studiooperations@dis neyonline.com

[iansays]

I am astounded at the rabidness surrounding this issue.

On both sides.

Who cares about some crummy Michael Moore movie? I doubt I'll find a rabid Moore fan around here to explain why they love him so much, but surely one of you can tell me what about him bothers some people so much.

I'm honestly curious. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

[AngelsRWorldChamps]

I Just spoke to Disney they gave answering machine to speak to I left a message. I also called shareholder service and asked the question they stated thet we no longer ar going to make the movie.

In regarding to the statements by moore if the Bush Family had any doing with a terrorist organization it had to do with oil, However I doubt they did it they did i dont think Bush Senoir would have been allowed to head the CIA let alone be Vice Pres than Pres, also I dont think Jeb or W would have ever been elected.

[lm8077]

My investment club dumped all of our Disney stock today. I know it isn't much, but it is a start. I dumped mine on Monday, as soon as I heard about the "documentary". I hope everyone does it.

DUMP YOUR DISNEY STOCK[B] http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/usflag22.gif http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/usflag22.gif

[AngelsRWorldChamps]

Quote[/b] (lm8077 @ May 14, 2003 -- 5:42 pm)].

DUMP YOUR DISNEY STOCK[B] http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/usflag22.gif *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/usflag22.gif
I wont dump my disney stock for simple reason that it allows access to the Company D Store in Anaheim. In this store owned by disney. I can by items that are up to 99% off retail value. This store is only open to the cast members and stock holders. The family got 2,500.00 dollars worth of Anaheim Angels merchandise for 300 dollars in March.

[BAZZA]

it must be a frosty day in hell...I'm starting to agree with the french http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif down wis zee Mik'ee!!~~BAZZA~~? emote /eats a frog and an snail..

[AngelsRWorldChamps]

Quote[/b] (iansays @ May 14, 2003 -- 3:56 pm)]Who cares about some crummy Michael Moore movie? I doubt I'll find a rabid Moore fan around here to explain why they love him so much, but surely one of you can tell me what about him bothers some people so much.
I care the stupid uneductable voters will watch it and think that Bush is evil. It just gives the Dummiecrates more power and influence on the uneducatable people.

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]I care the stupid uneductable voters will watch it and think that Bush is evil. It just gives the Dummiecrates more power and influence on the uneducatable people.

Um...I'm not quite sure where to begin.

"...the stupid uneductable [sic] *voters..." ?

Are we feeling a little elitist today? Perhaps mentioning that "uneductable" isn't a word may help you back down to non-elite status.

Figure that most of the population is stupid enough to believe everything they see in a movie theater? Figure those stupid people vote? Figure it's better to have those stupid people support your cause than that of the liberals? Figure you better manipulate those stupid people before someone else can? Which, if any, of these are true? If true, why?

"...more power and influence on the uneducatable [sic] people." *?

I'm not sure if you mean that this part of the voting public is uneducated, or unable to be educated. The first may be true; the second would be a clear sign of a bigoted stance on poor or uneducated people.

I, for one, believe that even in today's world, where sound-bites are news, and opinion polls shape public policy, that if I have an idea or principle, and I believe strongly enough in it, that I am willing to let anyone and everyone present their ideas and that mine will prevail because they are right.

If Moore is a crackpot, the more people who see his film the better. If you think that people will be conned into believing something that isn't true because they are uneducated, I suggest you do your best to educate them and make sure they can make informed choices, rather than trying to stifle information (or disinformation) that you don't agree with.

Perhaps we could begin by putting labels and prejudices aside and come to some common ground where we can at least discuss ideas freely. That is, after all, one of the things the founders of our country had in mind, I think.

(by the way, though I'm a Sharks fan at heart, Go Ducks!)

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]Are we feeling a little elitist today? Perhaps mentioning that "uneductable" isn't a word may help you back down to non-elite status.


In re-reading this, I realized it could have sounded quite mean spirited. It was not meant that way. I was just poking fun and apologize if it was taken the wrong way.

[Terri]

Iansays said:

Quote[/b] ]Who cares about some crummy Michael Moore movie?

But it seems you do care a lot Ian, judging by that long post. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[azwhitewolf]

Wow. *I leave for a day, and this forum explodes. *

I love it! *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *Quote[/b] ]AZWHITEWOLF -- I WAS JUST WONDERING, HOW IS MICHAEL MOORE'S FILM DEFILING THE MEMORY OF THE VICTIMS OF 9/11?
Did you bother to read what Moore is trying to do, rellybois? *He's implying that President Bush knew about it beforehand. *He's also critical about Bush "having classified documents", which is a stupid concept in itself. *Of COURSE leaders have classified documents. *So does your HR person at work. *For the obvious reasons, need I explain? *
Quote[/b] ]IT IS A DOCUMENTARY DETAILING THE EFFECTS OF AN EVENT ON THE COUNTRY. DOES THAT MEAN THAT ANY DOCUMENTARY ON CNN OR FOX ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF 9/11 IS DEFILING THE MEMORY OF ITS VICTIMS?
Which is exactly my point - Moore doesn't "detail", he fabricates. *Bowling for Columbine was a cut-and-paste documentary, basically using other people's sentences out of context, lying and fabricating. *Under the Oscar's own standards, BFC should have been instantly disqualified. *
Quote[/b] ]PS: YOU SEEM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH ISSUES PERTAINING TO HOMOSEXUALITY BEING ACKNOWLEDGED AND DISCUSSED. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO BE AFRAID OF?
Oh, you mean a PHOBIA? *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rofl.gif *No. * But what exactly ARE you accusing me of?

I'm not uncomfortable discussing it at all - look around the forum, buddy. *It's pretty plain to see. *

As far as Disney promoting a lifestyle (okay, get this- Homo=same sexual=self-explanatory) based SOLEY on a sexual act itself, no, I think that's inappropriate to teach kids that "gay is okay" shortly after their ABC's. Funny, the "heroes" in sitcoms today are gay, but the "weak clueless moronic bumbling idiots" are straight couples, and usually "dads" on those shows, especially when your core audience is usually focused on kids, and your biggest customer base - familes with parents. *Commercially, this isn't a risk worth taking.

Perhaps I should ask you this: *What is your need to expose young kids to a sexual lifestyle of ANY kind? *Why is this such a priority, when for most kids it would be an otherwise non-issue in every-day, growing-up life?

[jonalvy44]

In reading this thread, all I can say is that it will take time and lots of activism for the silent majority of patriotic Americans to reclaim our country from the left. It's time we said enough is enough and we are making progress. We must keep up the fight and not become complacent. Thanks all!

[jonalvy44]

Contact Info For Disney Studios: (818) 560-1000

Ask for CEO Michael Eisner's office for any doubting Thomases

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]But it seems you do care a lot Ian, judging by that long post. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Yeah I do tend to go on and on, don't I?

If I can't wear 'em out with logic, maybe I can put them to sleep with long-windedness. *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Terri]

Ian, that's what the forum is for. I've just gone on and on in another thread. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I appreciate your sense of humor. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Idpatriot]

Quote[/b] ]Excellent News!!

The Mouse has come to it's senses!! I just spoke with Disney CEO Michael Eisner's secretary, she was very familiar with the Moore controversy and she told me that Mr. Eisner has decided that while they and Miramax WERE considering a movie project, they have decided that it is NOT something they would want to be associated with!!

So not only has Mel Gibson and IKON Productions shunned the vile Mr. Moore, now Disney/Miramax has as well! This is a major victory and great news for proud Americans everywhere!

We will not forget the victims of 9-11. Nor will we allow their memories to be tarnished by Michael Moore.



This is the VERY reason why Conservative Americans who believe in family values should speak up, e-mail, and become loud voices in our desire to make certain media groups and personalities wake up and smell the http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/f_coffee.gif

I saw some posts on this thread that said we should not go see the movie and let the box office decide whether Mr. Moore is a success or not. Well, the problem is...you would be surprised how many people are just plain "NOT INFORMED". I saw that one person on here doesn't even know much about Michael Moore...well, maybe you should find out more about the anti-American, Bush basher! This is a man who is much more on the side of Communism than Democracy. If people don't know anything about the guy who makes the documentary, or don't know what the documentary is even about ....they will not be able to make an informed decision. That is the great thing about e-mail, now people can become informed, and they can become involved in making a difference! Millions of Americans who care about this country feel like they can't really do anything, but now we can. Through the internet and e-mail, millions of Americans are finding out that with a little bit of communication and effort, we are a powerful force, and we can make some changes!

If it hadn't been for Disney and Miramax's e-mail boxes being cluttered up with e-mail, and their fax machines being overwhelmed, they wouldn't have had a clue that so many people were against this, and they would have put it out anyway....

Michael Moore is getting the message as well as those who are anti-American just like him.....don't tread on this country's pride, don't tread on it's Commander and Chief, and remember....just because you are given the right and PRIVILEDGE in this country to speak your mind and say what you want....it doesn't always make it RIGHT!!! It's important to remember that there are also millions of Americans who realize and now know that the power of the internet and the power of the money in their wallets is a very LOUD voice, and WE also have that right to use it! This is a two way street when it comes to rights and priviledges.....

Disney was originally a family oriented and family friendly organization. Ever since Michael Eisner took over the company he has slowly brought it down into the depths of disgrace and anti-family themes! It all boils down to values and ethics....at some point Americans start realizing the importance of those and how important it is to teach those things to our kids...it is also something that coporations and many people have easily forgotten about and muddled over. I personally believe, that there is very LITTLE gray area in right and wrong....

I'm glad that Disney has thought this through and made the right decision, I hope that soon Michael Moore will figure it out as well!

Denise

[jack-o]

Terri said:

"Welcome to the forum, iansays and jack-o.
You are both forgetting one thing.
Freedom of speech and freedom to spend our money where we want works just as well for conservatives as it does for liberals.
Enjoy Michael Moore and Disney. *
We'll write our letters which is our right."

Thanks for the welcome Terri, sorry I don't respond very quickly. * *

I didn't mean to imply that you don't have the freedom to speak or spend as you choose, I wouldn't deny you either.

My favorite thing to tell people is that I vote with my feet and my wallet, some of the rhetoric around this whole Moore thing just creeps me out. *It seems like more of a campaign than a bunch of people voting with their feet and wallets, but maybe that's just where I sit..

My main point was about the tone of discourse, that one's point is better made when one sticks to the facts of an argument rather than impugning the character of the person who makes it. *

We have to share this country, and at the end of the day I don't think that most of us want much more than something to eat, a bed to sleep in, and a safe environment in which to live. Part of this means getting along with our neighbors, and if we're nasty to each other when we disagree, then we're working against the common good.

It's very important, especially during difficult times such as these, that we remember to give each other the benefit of the doubt. * *We all do the very best we can given the situations we find ourselves in, it would do us all good to remember that when someone says something that we don't agree with. *

I did attend a number of the war protests, but I am not a "spoiled little coward" nor a "white upper middle class brat who's been overindulged by (my) parents". *XNavyGunner, this is the type of rhetoric that I am referring to when I say that it's important to stick to the facts and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. *

I would never presume to imagine that your support of the bush administration was motivated by anything other than your desire to do what's best for your country, but unless you are willing to think the same about those who feel differently than you do, you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone of anything.

And this leads to my main point. *Since we're both very obviously concerned with making sure that our country remains safe, strong, and respected, don't we owe it to each other to talk rationally and calmly about how to achieve these ends? *

Judging by the name that you post under, I would guess that you have invested years of your life and possibly some amount of your own blood in our country, for this you have my respect. *You have undoubtedly put the skills that you learned in the service to work since your exit, I am sure that you are an asset to your community. * *

I too have invested a good deal of time and effort in our country. *

I have spent years of my life working as a counselor working with children who have been through the justice system. I have taught welding, auto mechanics, shop, kayaking, and guitar. I am an eagle scout. *I have been a volunteer EMT. I have family spread across the country, a job and a wife. *I have a lot to be thankful for. * **

We are much the same.

While we could no doubt disagree all day long about politics, we could do it in a manner which was civil and respectful. * At the end of the day, we would both have the benefit of having actually heard the other for what he had to say, rather than simply hating him for what we perceive him to be. *


peace all,
jack-o
http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag4.gif

[azwhitewolf]

Well, for those of you who don't understand what Michael Moore does for a living, allow me to POST the things I've previously written here. *(CLICK HERE). * (http://gopusa.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.pl?act=ST; f=19;t=2446)

On my first message, I've provided a link which should prove quite useful to you to help you discover that Michael Moore edited the sound bytes of those he interviewed, as well as lied about getting a gun in one day for opening an account at a bank. *The ENTIRE movie was based on making guns (and gun owners) look bad, and for that it was a success.

Of course, if you don't mind facts being left out. *Or being fooled.

In fact, I'll make it easy on you. *CLICK HERE INSTEAD (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling. html) to go directly to the link. *

Have fun. *You'll see why anyone who cares about fairness, truth or any semblance of accuracy would not sit well with Michael Moore.

But if you don't want to believe just ONE link, then:

Click HERE. (http://www.opinionjournal.c om/forms/printThis.html?id=11 0003233)
Or HERE. (http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html)
What the heck. *Or HERE. * (http://www.nationalreview.c om/kopel/kopel040403.asp)

If you need more articles to help you understand, let me know, and I'll gladly help out. *

By the way, http://www.revoketheoscar.c om/ is a website that just popped up - another CLEAR example that people are realizing that an award was given to the facts of a movie that was nothing less than anti-factual. *

But why believe me? * http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Terri]

Quote[/b] ]My favorite thing to tell people is that I vote with my feet and my wallet, some of the rhetoric around this whole Moore thing just creeps me out. *
Michael Moore creeps me out.

Quote[/b] ]My main point was about the tone of discourse, that one's point is better made when one sticks to the facts of an argument rather than impugning the character of the person who makes it. *
We have a rule here about impugning the character of other members. Public figures are fair game.

Quote[/b] ]We have to share this country, and at the end of the day I don't think that most of us want much more than something to eat, a bed to sleep in, and a safe environment in which to live.
I want much more than that. I want my country to continue in it's great traditions. I don't want it changed to a socialist/communist country by the likes of Michael Moore.

Quote[/b] ]I did attend a number of the war protests, but I am not a "spoiled little coward" nor a "white upper middle class brat who's been overindulged by (my) parents". *
Quite possibly you will not like me at all but I must point out to you that by attending the war protests you did in fact convey a message of support to Saddam Hussein. You and your fellow marchers gave him the impression that America was not united and that he still had hope of staying in power. I realize this was probably not your intention but in the end, in the real world and not the world of pretty ideas, it is results that are counted. Your marches resulted in giving Saddam false hope.

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]We have a rule here about impugning the character of other members.

I agree wholeheartedly with this rule. We should all do our best to make it a priority not to make judgments about other people's character.

If we occasionally stray from it, we should consider that we all make mistakes but that we still need to strive for a more tolerant state. God knows that some days I could use a little extra tolerance.

[Idpatriot]

Quote[/b] ]God knows that some days I could use a little extra tolerance.


MOST days I could use extra tolerance Ian. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laff.gif

Jacko: It would be nice if everybody could just "get along" and accept others, and realize that everybody has differences and all that stuff. I think in most cases, people do. But, what I've noticed is that the Left in the last 10 years has become less tolerant, and have an agenda to break down family values and American patriotism, and just plain old common sense! If Americans who do not go along with this don't stand up and make themselves heard, the Left will succeed in their agenda! The Left in America has an agenda, Jacko, and when you realize what that agenda is and what it leads to, it would be very dangerous and concerning for this country as we know it.

There is more to life for me than food, a bed, and a safe environment! I have a 9 year old son, and I don't want his life to be filled with worse crud than I'm seeing now. I want to be an example to my son of what it means to stand firm on what you believe in, and don't back down when you know it's right! I want my son to know the difference between right and wrong, and that there is very LITTLE gray when it comes to that! Our society has become that of "if it feels good do it, and as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else, do what you want" Well, you know what....that isn't right!!!

Every person has to figure out in their mind what is right and what is wrong....bottom line! If it's right...stand up for it...if it's wrong...let it be known! Boundaries in this country have become very muddled and confused...and what I'm seeing are a LOT of students and young people who are very confused as to what they believe and what is right and wrong. It is up to parents to start making these lines clear, because the education system and the media are only making the problem worse!

So....where it would be nice to not have any arguments or disagreement....it would be nice if people could just live peacefully and not call each other names or imply that people aren't very smart for decisions that they make...sometimes, it just doesn't happen that way!

The line in the sand is being drawn deeper and deeper....it's just the way it is going, and I don't see things changing. I guess it's a matter of figuring out which side of the line you want to be on.... http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ne_nau.gif

Denise

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]I did attend a number of the war protests, but I am not a "spoiled little coward" nor a "white upper middle class brat who's been overindulged by (my) parents".

Quote[/b] ]Quite possibly you will not like me at all but I must point out to you that by attending the war protests you did in fact convey a message of support to Saddam Hussein

It is a citizen's duty to make his/hers views known to the government. It is slanderous to suggest that people who protested the war supported Hussein. I suppose the people that protested the Vietnam war were supporting Ho Chi Minh and Mao?

The 'with us or against us' attitude is reminiscent of 1930s Germany. Everyone was full of nationalistic pride, moral superiority, and a desire for security. We know where they ended up. We have a duty to let our leaders know that we won't repeat the mistakes of the past.

(Opps. Goodwin's law strikes again)

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]It is a citizen's duty to make his/hers views known to the government. It is slanderous to suggest that people who protested the war supported Hussein.
It's equally slanderous to say that you're a patriotic American, and then make a childish stand against what the leadership of the country you pledge your allegiance to (if you do...) has decided was in the best interest of protecting the country.
Quote[/b] ]I suppose the people that protested the Vietnam war were supporting Ho Chi Minh and Mao?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. BUT, make no mistake. The World Worker's Party, and many other prominent Anti-American organizations were behind 90% of the protests. That means organizing, funding, recruiting, man you name it. While I think the people of America were protesting war (which is noble), the organization and leadership BEHIND the American people protesting the war (which is staunchly Hate America) is very scary. To think that other people can manipulate American citizens like that to openly promote their own beliefs is an incredibly scary thing. And the lovey-dovey liberals bought into it, line, sinker and hook is disturbing.
Quote[/b] ]The 'with us or against us' attitude is reminiscent of 1930s Germany. Everyone was full of nationalistic pride, moral superiority, and a desire for security. We know where they ended up.
That's nonsense. That is exactly the kind of crap you hear from people who hate America, and no doubt, you picked that up at your "peace rally". We had nationalist pride, moral superiority and a desire for security in the 40's, 50's, and started losing it in the 60's. It's history to me, so I'd like to see it emerge, so I can enjoy it for once in my lifetime.

But to say that the only way to get those things results in a SS squad or a Hiter-type leadership, I think you're sadly mistaken.
Quote[/b] ]We have a duty to let our leaders know that we won't repeat the mistakes of the past.
Could that possibly include dropping a new high-tech bomb in order to quickly win a war and save thousands of lives, like in Hiroshima?

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]It's equally slanderous to say that you're a patriotic American, and then make a childish stand against what the leadership of the country you pledge your allegiance

I'm glad that we agree that it's slanderous to say that people who protested supported Hussein. I'm not sure *who* one would be slandering by making childish stands; though *I would agree that, in general, childish stands are silly.

I also have some doubts about the massive involvement of the WWW in the protests. What was their motive? To show that in this country we have rights that people in other countries don't? To prove that, even if critical of their leaders, people can still express themselves? Or was it all aimed directly at GWB?

Quote[/b] ]openly promote their own beliefs

If I knew what you believed these beliefs to be, I might like to discuss them further.

Quote[/b] ]But to say that the only way to get those things results in a SS squad or a Hiter-type leadership, I think you're sadly mistaken.


I didn't mean or imply this. I probably should have put 'excessive' before my mention of national pride and the like. There is nothing wrong with a healthy amount of national pride.

Quote[/b] ]Could that possibly include dropping a new high-tech bomb in order to quickly win a war and save thousands of lives, like in Hiroshima?

Well, it's recently been widely discussed that there may have been little reason to further decimate Japan by dropping nuclear bombs on them, and that it was done for other reasons, but I think I miss the point of your question. Are you asking if it was a mistake of the past to bomb Hiroshima? I would say that the evidence to date suggests that it was not a military mistake.

Quote[/b] ]That is exactly the kind of crap you hear from people who hate America, and no doubt, you picked that up at your "peace rally".

It would have been difficult for me to hear it at any peace rally, as I did not attend one. I felt that most of the peace rallies were a hodge-podge collection of parties that seemed more interested in supporting vertically challenged lesbian outreach programs and the like. I was at home, writing my elected representatives and the companies who make the products I buy and letting them know my views.

[bbehling]

Ok, here's a simple question I need you guys to ask yourself.

If a nurse injects you with a virus with out you knowing it and when your sick, she gives you the cure, would you consider her a hero? Or would you consider her an appalling person.

And by the way, I wasn't labeling the Republicn party.I was just stating the facts that what current party that calls themselves "Republicans" are truly not what a Republican is. I know plenty of people who are Repulicans in the true sense of the word and will not vote for George Bush again.

By the way, where are the WMD's? :cool:

[Terri]

Quote[/b] ]It is a citizen's duty to make his/hers views known to the government. It is slanderous to suggest that people who protested the war supported Hussein. I suppose the people that protested the Vietnam war were supporting Ho Chi Minh and Mao?

No, it is not slanderous. It is a fact that the peace protests in this country and around the world encouraged Saddam Hussein to think that we were not serious and would not follow through.

I understand that wasn't the intention of many of the protestors but it is not intentions that matter so much as results.

If Saddam hadn't thought he had the support of the protestors, the French, the Germans, the Russians and the UN he might have been convinced to step down without a war. Those of you who vocally opposed the war contributed to his refusal to do so.

Many of the protestors didn't bother to find out who organized and sponsored the large peace rallys that they attended. Some people might not have gone had they realized who organized them.

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]I'm not sure *who* one would be slandering by making childish stands; though I would agree that, in general, childish stands are silly.
Primarily the US, but I think more directly, President Bush. It's not good enough for liberals to make fun of him within the borders of his own country - they have seeked to make him the idiot-poster-boy of the WORLD.

That was the intent, and that is the result. The sad part is, Bush is actually a smart man, who makes careful decisions, and certainly didn't "plan" on 9-11 in his administration. The libs would have you believe quite the opposite.
Quote[/b] ]If I knew what you believed these beliefs to be, I might like to discuss them further.
I forget who, but someone here at http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/gopusa.gif could explain the World Workers Party much better than I. But in a nutshell, they want to turn the US into a socialist state.
Quote[/b] ] I probably should have put 'excessive' before my mention of national pride and the like.
And no offense intended on my part. Some people would NOT use "excessive", so I wanted to clarify. Hey, we agree here. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twothumbsup.gif
Quote[/b] ]Are you asking if it was a mistake of the past to bomb Hiroshima? I would say that the evidence to date suggests that it was not a military mistake.
Right. War in the past has solved quite a number of problems. That was the purpose of my point. If "war" was so evil, we wouldn't have anything to show for it. But that said, I am no fan of war, nor do I wish to force other countries to have America. But I encourage it.
Quote[/b] ]It would have been difficult for me to hear it at any peace rally, as I did not attend one. I felt that most of the peace rallies were a hodge-podge collection of parties that seemed more interested in supporting vertically challenged lesbian outreach programs and the like.
http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rotflo.gif Whoops! I stepped in a steamy pile on this one. I was obviously mistaken, and I apologize.

Well, for what it's worth, socialism scares the crap out of me. It doesn't work. It fails, and leaves people miserable. Countries move down the notch on progress, protection, and quality of life. Liberals (and Democrats as their apologists) are steering the country towards socialism, in EVERY aspect from education, to health care, to morality. When you start hearing about Disney sponsoring "thought sensitivity" training, you've come to a fork in the road - do you stand up and use your own mind, or do you give it up to someone in a leadership position?

I choose to keep my mind. It can be angry, and sometimes dirty, I suppose, but it's my thoughts. Not the reprogramming of someone who allows me to think what he or she thinks is correct.

On another note, I'd love to be the guy who opens the "letters to the President" at any corporation who advertises. That has got to open you to an incredible amount of differing opinions.

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]It is a fact that the peace protests in this country and around the world encouraged Saddam Hussein to think that we were not serious and would not follow through.

I'd appreciate it if you would not state your opinions as fact. You have no evidence of any 'thoughts' of Saddam Hussein. Perhaps he would have stepped down if we offered him the $30 billion we tried to bribe Turkey with. Perhaps in the 80s we shouldn't have set him up with advisors and precursors to chemical weapons. Perhaps we should have assassinated him while we had the chance. I would submit that our leaders (all of them) did more to help Saddam Hussein than any silly protesters (that's an opinion, not a fact).

[Terri]

Quote[/b] ]I'd appreciate it if you would not state your opinions as fact. You have no evidence of any 'thoughts' of Saddam Hussein.
Saddam made a statement of appreciaton for the protestors at the height of the protests.

I can find links to it in Google but so far the stories are archived or the pages deleted. Even without the written proof common sense should tell you that Saddam was glad for anyone who tried to stop the US from attacking him.

I did find the remarks of the PM of Australia who shares my views.

Quote[/b] ]The Prime Minister, John Howard, has accused the 500,000 Australians who took part in last weekend's peace rallies of giving "comfort to Saddam Hussein".

" I do know ... that demonstrations do give comfort to the Iraqi leadership," Mr Howard said during a radio interview. "We are all accountable for the actions we take.

"And people who demonstrate and give comfort to Saddam Hussein must understand that and must realise that it's a factor in making it that much more difficult to get united world opinion on this issue, which in the end is the best guarantee there is of finding a peaceful solution, if there is a peaceful solution to be found." *

PM denounces protesters for aiding Saddam (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/20/1045638427837.html)

Perhaps you should write to him and complain just as you complain to me.

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps you should write to him and complain just as you complain to me.

Just because you and he agree on an opinion doesn't make it a fact.

And, in fact, I have written to him. And Tony Blair. And many others.

Quote[/b] ]Even without the written proof common sense should tell you that Saddam was glad for anyone who tried to stop the US from attacking him.

To use what we think of as 'common sense' with a man like Saddam Hussein is, in my view, a mistake.

[Terri]

Quote[/b] ]To use what we think of as 'common sense' with a man like Saddam Hussein is, in my view, a mistake.

Actually, I wasn't referring to Saddam's common sense. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

The protestors didn't want the war.

Saddam didn't want the war.

Therefore, Saddam would appreciate anyone who tried to stop the war.

Some of us could follow that even without Saddam's statement.

[iansays]

Quote[/b] ]Therefore, Saddam would appreciate anyone who tried to stop the war.

Who Saddam appreciated has no bearing on your opinion that he would have stepped down at some point.

In fact, if you follow the stepping down scenario, you would likely have ended up with an Islamic state. I doubt you would have liked that.

It was in the interests of America that he fight and be deposed. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had an excuse to march in and impose our own leaders. Not that we really needed one, anyway.

[bbehling]

What is so wrong with universal health care and free education? Would that be socialism? If so, what would be wrong with that? We, THE great USA, could pay for it if we don't give any more money to Israel. We pay them over 40 billion dolars a year for defense purposes.

By the way - for those who don't realize this - socilaism is a political philosophy that founded the labour party in Britan, who is our staunchist allyin the "War on Iraq".

TIME TO BECOME ISOLANTIONIST!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[Terri]

bbehling, welcome to the forum if I haven't said that before.

This topic is mostly about Disney and Michael Moore. It has already been derailed.

If you would like to talk about socialism please start a new topic in Political Buzz.

[rellybois]

Quote[/b] (azwhitewolf @ May 15, 2003 -- 12:29 am)]I love it! *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *Quote[/b] ]AZWHITEWOLF -- I WAS JUST WONDERING, HOW IS MICHAEL MOORE'S FILM DEFILING THE MEMORY OF THE VICTIMS OF 9/11?
Did you bother to read what Moore is trying to do, rellybois? *He's implying that President Bush knew about it beforehand. *He's also critical about Bush "having classified documents", which is a stupid concept in itself. *Of COURSE leaders have classified documents. *So does your HR person at work. *For the obvious reasons, need I explain?
YOU HAVE STILL FAILED TO ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTION. HOW IS BEING CRITICAL OF PRESIDENT BUSH AN ATTACK ON THE VICTIMS OF 9/11?
SO GOING BY YOUR STATEMENT, WOULD BEING CRITICAL OF OLIVER CROMWELL BE AN ATTACK ON THE VICTIMS OF THE ENGLISH CIVIL WAR?

[jonalvy44]

relly--Many Americans woke up on 9-11, it was our Pearl Harbor. We do not take any joke or negative comment about 9-11 lightly. 3000 people were murdered. It is very emotional for us. For someone like Michael Moore to accuse president Bush of any conspiracy in referrence to this event is an affront to our sense of good taste.

You may not, that's your right. But seems the majority of Americans feel the same way and thus, we are taking action.

[rellybois]

Quote[/b] (jonalvy44 @ May 18, 2003 -- 7:54 am)]relly--Many Americans woke up on 9-11, it was our Pearl Harbor. *We do not take any joke or negative comment about 9-11 lightly. *3000 people were murdered. *It is very emotional for us. *For someone like Michael Moore to accuse president Bush of any conspiracy in referrence to this event is an affront to our sense of good taste. *

You may not, that's your right. *But seems the majority of Americans feel the same way and thus, we are taking action.
Please, spare me your patronizing. You act like I don't understand the anguish felt after that day. I live 5 minutes from the World Trade Center. I remember not being able to go home for 3 days. I remember seeing the enormous black plume of smoke stretching across the sky above me. I remember the acrid smoke mixed with jet fuel burning my lungs. Don't act as if I don't understand the emotions related to that event.
Moving on, I think that Michael Moore's movie is in fact that opposite of a joke or light-heartedness about 9/11. If you saw Bowling for Columbine, you would realize that he felt very distressed about 9/11 and is coping with it by trying to find why things like this happen. I don't think that President Bush and 9/11 are the same thing. I see one as an event, as one as the person in charge when that event occurred. Investigating and trying to understand if any errors were made in the handling of 9/11 I think is not an insult but sign of respect to the victims to see that any problems are rectified so something as horrible as what happened to them on that day can never happen again.

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]I love it! Quote
AZWHITEWOLF -- I WAS JUST WONDERING, HOW IS MICHAEL MOORE'S FILM DEFILING THE MEMORY OF THE VICTIMS OF 9/11?

AZ sez:
Did you bother to read what Moore is trying to do, rellybois? He's implying that President Bush knew about it beforehand. He's also critical about Bush "having classified documents", which is a stupid concept in itself. Of COURSE leaders have classified documents. So does your HR person at work. For the obvious reasons, need I explain?

Relly sez:
YOU HAVE STILL FAILED TO ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTION. HOW IS BEING CRITICAL OF PRESIDENT BUSH AN ATTACK ON THE VICTIMS OF 9/11?
Hey pal, ya think you could turn off your "all caps" response? Netiquette suggests that you're yelling at me, and I'll gladly respond at your lowest common denominator if you insist.

The victims of 9-11 died as a result of someone else's government. When you attempt to stop OUR government from delivering justice, then you let 9-11 victims die in vain. Maybe you'd rather just "let it be... let it be" or "give peace a change", or whatever John Lennon crap you want to go with, but as for me, I like to see criminals punished and terrorists dealt with. If you infringe on investigations (which the Democrats do), fail to support the President in fact finding (which the Democrats do) and paint the US as being led by an "evil dictator", (which the Democrats do), then you discount the validity of US life lost in the attack.

When you are Michael Moore, the facts are irrelevant. And incidentally, that is what this topic IS about.

Now. Answer my question. Are you even aware that Bowling by Moore was compltetely and 100% fabricated? That Charton Heston's speech was cut and pasted from 3 different speeches that spanned a year in-between? That the "open a checking account get a free gun" thing was fabricated, and that even the Bank managers accused Moore of being completely dishonest?

But maybe you hate when people lie. I'd rather think this is the case.

[jonalvy44]

relly...I don't mean to patronize. I really don't think you get it.

[AngelsRWorldChamps]

Quote[/b] (iansays @ May 14, 2003 -- 8:54 pm)]Quote[/b] ]I care the stupid uneductable voters will watch it and think that Bush is evil. It just gives the Dummiecrates more power and influence on the uneducatable people.

Um...I'm not quite sure where to begin.

"...the stupid uneductable [sic] *voters..." ?

Are we feeling a little elitist today? Perhaps mentioning that "uneductable" isn't a word may help you back down to non-elite status.
Why I do have an MS and a JD I am book educated. However that does not mean I am an educated voter if one had a college degree. An educated Voted is someone from right out of High School to someone with 5 PHD's and works at Femi Lab. An educated voter is some that reads about the canidates and listins to them on the issues and then decides how she is she is going to vote for its had nothing to do with any college education at all.

[bbehling]

Will someone tell me where the WMD's are? Isn't that why we went to war?

[Proud_American]

Quote[/b] (bbehling @ May 20, 2003 -- 11:32 am)]Will someone tell me where the WMD's are? Isn't that why we went to war?
bbehling...

do you have any idea how hard it is going to be to FIND the WMD in IRAQ? that is, if Saddam didn't already destroy them or sell them or send them to SYRIA for safe-keeping....

the UN did a dandy job of bogging us down long enough to allow Saddam to do whatever he needed to...

and it is VERY possible, considering the situation in the middle-east, that all we will find will be bits and pieces of nothing... empty trailers, scrubbed down factories, but never a smoking gun... which makes us look bad, but does not provide irrefutable proof in either direction...

you can believe what you want to believe, but personally, I think you are extremely niave regarding how things work in the real world and the tactics of our enemies... who, by the way, really love that even as they plot to destroy us, they can count on our own people blunting our efforts to fight back...

What it comes down to is using your brain and looking at the facts... if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then maybe it is a duck...

Proud_American

[Klaymore]

I hate to bring the forum topic back to the source but, I am trying to swallow my pride (and common sense) to see this so called movie. I realize that the NRA might throw me out for that but I must admit that curiosity compels me to see how woefully inaccurate this is. A glaring oversight by almost all of the gun control minions is that a gun is a tool. An axe in the hands of a psychopath is as dangerous as a gun. Would it hurt people to use logic instead a knee jerk reaction. I am going to step off of my soapbox before I get to carried away by and my apologies for preaching to choir.

[jonalvy44]

Did anyone catch Scarborough Tuesday nite? Mike Farrell was on, my email to Joe:

Joe:

Another awesome show last nite, I'm glad to see you aren't letting the celebs off easy. Some points I wanted to make concerning Mike Farrell's appearance and statements:

1. Mike Farrell is obviously concerned that their right to free speech is under attack by some vast right-wing conspiracy. No one is silencing them. The government has arrested no one. My organization is merely a loose confederation of patriotic Americans across the USA and Canada that were offended by the actions of these celebrities. We have organized to inform others and to remind them of what these people said and did. My group exists BECAUSE of their outrageous behavior. We have never once told Mike Farrell he is not allowed to speak out.

2. It's not McCarthyism since our boycott is not government sanctioned not are we a part of the government. We are average working stiffs that have to get up at 6 AM to work nine hours a day. We prefer the term "consumer backlash" as opposed to McCarthyism. No one is being arrested or prevented from talking. Let's get to the heart of the matter. These celebs are upset because they rely on the public for their entertainment dollars and a great number of the buying public has chosen to shop elsewhere!

3. Mike Farrell also stated that he would support NOT PURCHASING Bridgett Bardot's book since it is offensive. That is the same thing that is happening here! We are merely voicing our displeasure with these celbrities and their behavior during a time of crisis when our country needed them. He endorsed the same behavior when he said don't buy her book!

4. Where was the Hollywood outcry when John Rocker made his offensive statements? Where was the outrage from Hollywood against the boycott of South Carolina by the NAACP? We are all free to speak our minds, why can't Mike Farrell recognize that there is nothing wrong with holding one accountable for their words/actions/behaviors? Is part of the problem the fact that we now live in a society where no one wants to be held responsible for their actions? Well many Americans aren't buying that anymore!

5. He said why aren't the politicians being held responsible for their anti-war stance and outrageous comments? They will be! It's called the voting booth. Unlike liberals, we don't call for politicians to resign every time they say something stupid or offensive. We aren't as PC-sensitive as the left. I'm sure Tom Daschle is sweating over his upcoming bid for re-election. The voters will be reminded. The only way to hold Hollywood accountable is to vote with our wallets.

Bottom line: No one forced these celebrities to say such outrageous things. They chose to enter the realm of politics. They chose to expose their poliitcal beliefs to their public. Many were not as receptive as the celebrities had obviously hoped. This only illustrates how out of touch they truly are with the average American. We are now sharing with them how WE feel. They don't seem to like our message. Only problem is, we are the ones in a position of power.

Keep up the great work!



Jon Alvarez
Syracuse, NY

[Proud_American]

Its amazing how far our country has been subsumed by the communists and the socialists...

like I've always said, they couldn't beat us by raw military power, so they've turned all their efforts to corrupting us from the inside...

has anyone here ever read the 10 planks of the communits manifesto... its frightening when you see how much our current system mimics that document...

I think all of our problems today stem back to FDR and the New Deal... that was the beginning of government socialism...

Proud_American

[jonalvy44]

I think we are witnessing a movement in america to reclaim our country...Enough is enough. Just look at how the Democrats truly come off as such flakes.

However, that does not mean we let up our guard...In the 4th quarter you never allow an opposing team momentum to catch up. You beat em down further.

[lm8077]

I sold all my Disney stock, and wrote the investor relations department and told them way.

No supporting Michael Moore.

[jack-o]

Your ravings about how our country has been taken over by everything from communists to terrorists to mickey mouse are, for jack-o, a bit on the thin side of informative. *

Enjoy your time posting to each other about how you're going to shut down this film, and how the country's going to hell, I'm giving up the bulletin board and going back to talking with my neighbors. *

I started looking at this thread hoping to see something that would help me to understand what is happening in our country right now. * While there have been a few interesting posts, in general I've found it the wrong place to look for this sort of enlightenment. *While there's no shortage of vitriol, the lack of substance and the repetition are, well, boring.

I wish you all well, and leave you with this thought:


Politics is for people with a passion for changing Life,
but no passion for living It. * *

Y'all enjoy your politics, and I'll be enjoying life!


http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag4.gif

sayonara,
jack-o

[Fang]

Interesting thread and contributions by all..

I see a huge difference between blatant censorship and excercising one's right to civilly protest using a call to boycott.

I see a huge difference between blindly asking for allegience and taking the time to educate people.



Quote[/b] ]I think we are witnessing a movement in america to reclaim our country...Enough is enough. *

I think we are witnessing a movement by "regular" folk to reclaim what they want America to represent. And there can be many different versions. The important thing is that all people regardless of economic status realize they have the power to make changes and contribute to creating the America they want their children to inherit.

Of course I have to say that because I'm basically poor..

WK11xray@AirborneRan ger.us

Fang..

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]Your ravings about how our country has been taken over by everything from communists to terrorists to mickey mouse are, for jack-o, a bit on the thin side of informative.
Quote[/b] ] I'm giving up the bulletin board and going back to talking with my neighbors.
Before you do, may I suggest you stop referring to yourself in the third-person before you talk with your neighbors?
Quote[/b] ]in general I've found it the wrong place to look for this sort of enlightenment. While there's no shortage of vitriol, the lack of substance and the repetition are, well, boring.
Well, I didn't see the overwhelming posts, ideas and enlightenment from you either. Perhaps you might want to join a group next time, before you insult them on your way out.

Hope your neighbors are Republicans! http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[rellybois]

Quote[/b] (Proud_American @ May 20, 2003 -- 1:18 pm)]What it comes down to is using your brain and looking at the facts... *if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then maybe it is a duck...
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL A SOLID REASON FOR THE TAXPAYERS TO COUGH UP $30 BILLION!!!

[Floridaguy]

This thread has run a bit too long, IMO. I agree with azww's last post. I hate to be the one to point this out, and potentially get a dirty look from Terri, but I am guessing at this point that the "o" in jack-o is not for Jack-o-lantern.... http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin2.gif

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag19.gif http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cowboy7.gif http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/peepwallA.gif