McCain and Hillary Rally Illegals

[Terri]

McCain and Hillary Rally Illegals

Human Events

Senators John McCain (R.-Ariz.) and Hillary Clinton (D.-N.Y.), the current frontrunners for their parties’ 2008 presidential nominations, joined Senators Teddy Kennedy (D.-Mass.) and Charles Schumer (D.-N.Y,) in rallying a group of illegal aliens who came to Washington, D.C., on March 8 as part of a lobbying effort funded by a foreign government to push for amnesty for illegal aliens.

McCain and Clinton both effusively greeted the illegal-alien lobbyists as if they had come to champion some great moral and constitutional cause.

“It is so heartening to see you here,” said Clinton. “You are really here on behalf of what America means, America’s values, America’s hopes.”

More (http://www.humaneventsonlin e.com/article.php?id=13102 )

[Froufrou]

You know, I have to say that I did not even want to read this~! Scary!

[Charie]

Well, who sent in the clowns? There are lawbreakers all in a bunch and
Ronald McDonald, Emmett, Bozo and Clarabell are all big goofy smiles giving them the glad hand. By way of them being officers of the Senate and House shouldn't they have been wearing their sheriff costumes instead? I'd've sprung for the shiny badges and fake clubs, myself.

They make a laughingstock of our laws!!

[rangerrebew]

I'm afraid if the next Presidential election comes down to McLame and Madame, there REALLY, SADLY isn't much difference. *I could never bring myself to vote for Madame, but that leaves McLame which isn't much of a choice either.

[lance sjogren]

John McCain is quite delusional.

He apparently thinks he can become President by the votes of illegal aliens engaging in voter fraud.

(To top it off, they have to vote REPUBLICAN if he is to win the party nomination)


I know he actually does pretty well in national polls, but that will fizzle.

I need a good metaphor here but the right one escapes me.

So I will simply say, his popularity will fade out like a cheap suit.

[KathrynSmith]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">Senators John McCain (R.-Ariz.) and Hillary Clinton (D.-N.Y.), the current frontrunners for their parties’ 2008 presidential nominations, joined Senators Teddy Kennedy (D.-Mass.) and Charles Schumer (D.-N.Y,) in rallying a group of illegal aliens who came to Washington, D.C., on March 8 as part of a lobbying effort funded by a foreign government to push for amnesty for illegal aliens. [/QUOTE]

Kerry asked McCain to be his running mate, but he refused. I wonder if he'll refuse Hillary's offer? Ever wonder if McCain is really a Socialist Demoplant?
The wanna be DemoRAT?

[Jimmy Wesson]

I WILL NEVER WANT HILLACAIN

If I were you, I won't vote, because they are the same.

[candles]

Hillary is just looking for more illegal votes.
Now, for McCain he just proved he is not who Republicans want for '08 or any year. http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ghostface.gif

[MamaCat]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">“This kind of reception is enough to make a guy want to run for President of the United States,” said McCain, after the illegal aliens gave him a standing ovation.
[/QUOTE]

This shows how truly out-of-step this man is with his party and conservatives in general. Hopefully the word will get out so that everyone knows his position in illegal immigration. That ought to just about cook his chances for a nomination -- at least in the circles I travel in.
(Not that I know anyone who actually likes him to begin with.)

[slickwilly]

And McLame is from Arizona?

Don't they have enough problems will illegals there without this?

http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[seattleyounggop]

Two things: 1) I don't believe that McCain is the front runner, even polls show that he's in the top 3, but every poll has a different &quot;winner.&quot; (Although I never go by polls). 2) I don't understand what McCain is doing. If he wants to win the GOP nomination, moving to the left will not get him there.

[Old Man]

Polling Place (http://pollingreport.com/2008.htm)

That site has the most recent polls and Giuliani and McCain run neck and neck with Giuliani slightly ahead.

Immigration is not that important to the majority of Americans once you get past secure the border. This is the problem Tom Tancredo runs into. They want the border secure but don't want to do much about those already here, in many states, especially the further from dark red you get.

Here in Arizona, ever 52% thought that those with jobs should be allowed to stay.

The Democrats are playing to the human misery angle and playing it for all it is worth and you have about 1/2 the nation that don't pay income tax and don't think it is costing them anything. They are the ones most easily convinced to empathize with people who need good jobs, etc. They don't rationalize it out, just listen to democratic sound bytes and thing &quot;oh those poor people.&quot;

They are worried about terrorists coming across, but not those that are already here. The voting population is a lot different than even 10 years ago. We have another 10 years of people graduating from liberal colleges and that think we are evil if we don't take care of the world even if we have to raise taxes (just not theirs).

McCain is just playing to that group of moderates and hoping that the Repubican base will go along just to keep a democrat out of office. He may be right. That site shows him beating several other Deomcratic contenders including Kerry and Edwards.

I don't mean it is any kind of run-away, just enough that it is giving him confidence he is &quot;winning with moderates and independents.&quot;

[seattleyounggop]

McCain needs to realize that he has to win the Republicans before Independents and cross-over Democrats.

[Old Man]

Yes, but we have to remember we only 37% of the vote. We can't win without moderates and independents in the battleground states.

The problem isn't the conservative states but rather the battleground states and that is all the democrats care about. They know they won't win the red states and don't care if they don't. They just want to win the battleground states because the blue will probably stay blue.

You have to run a candidate that can win and is as close to the base as possible and still win. 2nd place will get us liberal courts, tax increases, and a good chance that within 2 to 4 years we will enter a recesssion since it takes about that long for them to get new policies in place and businesses to start reacting to a changing economy.

The benefits from the Bush Tax Cuts are just now really starting to show up in the last 6 months or so and look how long ago they were put in place. If Kerry would have won, he would be taking credit right now for what he did to increase employment, increase wages (which are going up finally) and he would have raised taxes but for two or more years would have been riding the Bush Tax Cut wave. But, he would be telling voters, &quot;see, I raised taxes and the economy is still strong.&quot;

Then when it did collapse later he would find some way to blame the Repubicans or if it happened just before his term ended, the next President would get most of the blame for what Kerry did.

The Bush recession was started under Clinton and voters were led to believe that Clinton had a booming 2nd term. Yet virtually every sector peaked and was falling after 1998-1999 as far as growth in jobs went. If you look at a graph of job growth, it was in a free fall before Bush ever took office and the rate of fall was consistant until his tax cuts started to slow and then stop the drop.

Voters have usually given the wrong president credit for what congress passes 2 to 4 years earlier.

[seattleyounggop]

I'm just saying that if McCain wishes to become the Republican nominee and then cruise to an easy victory, he'll need to stop his unpredictability and prove he can remain loyal to the core Republican values. National Journal rates members of Congress in %Conservative and %Liberal based on their voting record. He scored 59.2% Conservative this last year and 51.7% the year before. Back in the 80's and early 90's he scored in the 80%'s. I will support McCain in the general election given he wins the GOP nomination, but that will be hard for him to do if he looses the core GOP support.

[lance sjogren]

I think McCain is a sure-fire failiure.

Just look at what's actually in the McCain Kennedy bill.


I agree with the person who commented that immigration is not necessarily as big an issue nationwide as it is in border states, but it is getting there. Just look at all the immigration reform groups sprouting up in places like North Carolina, Connecticut, etc.

I believe McCain's support for a wide open border policy will kill him politically.

He also has all sorts of other liabilities. Check out John Boutillier's article in Newsmax from yesterday. McCain is a belligerent and arrogant person. He suppresses that when he appears with his journalist buddies in the Old Media, but on the campaign his true nature is going to come out.

And, the public is becoming increasingly concerned about illegal immigration. Look at how much that concern has risen, throughout the country, in the last two years? Why did that happen? Because illegal immigration is exploding, and Bush is welcoming the illegals with open arms.

If the problem has gotten that much worse in the last two years, what do you think it will be like in two years from now? I will tell you, it will be as bad throughout the country as it currently is in states like California.

It may not have a great deal of impact on the 2006 election, but by 2008 I believe it will be one of the dominant issues and very possibly THE dominant issue.

That leaves a huge leadership vacuum in 2008, because most of the leading candidates for Pres. in 2008 are Kool-Aid Drinking Open Borders Cultmembers.

So we may not even get a pro-borders nominee in 2008. But I don't believe the extremist wackos like McCain, Brownback, Hagel, etc. will be able to survive public scrutiny of their immigration stance.

I think that leaves the door open to an attractive candidate who may not be pro-borders but at least is not an open borders extremist. Right now, Romney looks like he potentially might fill that bill.

[Froufrou]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">most of the leading candidates for Pres. in 2008 are Kool-Aid Drinking Open Borders Cultmembers.[/QUOTE]

http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rotflo.gif http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


This is sad but true.

[MeanOldGrouch]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">He apparently thinks he can become President by the votes of illegal aliens engaging in voter fraud.
[/QUOTE]

And if people think the Swift Boat guys were rough on Kerry, I don't think they will be any kinder to McCain. Think about it. If a guy was held prisoner by the enemy, wouldn't it stand to reason he would have some lasting mental damage? Where will we be if he goes over the edge? While I have a great deal of sympathy for him, I would never vote for McCain, for any positon, even if he wasn't a border-jumper loving kool aid drinker.

[lance sjogren]

MeanOldGrouch:


I don't think anyone should go there.

Questioning McCain's military service or raising the question on whether he suffered brain damage while tortured by the communists is just going to generate sympathy for him.

I think a normal human being's reaction to McCain is to be sympathetic to and honor his past, but to be unsympathetic and not honor what he's doing right now.

I think we need to focus on the harm his policies would do to our nation.

In fact, when his back is to the wall, which I believe it will be as he is forced to explain what in the hell he thinks he's doing as far as immigration policy, it wouldn't surprise me if he tries to change the subject by waxing nostalgic about his past as a war hero.

I don't think it will work, though.

But I would think for the swift boat folks or anyone like that to get into that area would just be playing into McCain's hands.

[lance sjogren]

One odd thing is how McCain is now sucking up to Bush.

I guess there may be some political benefit to that, but as some commentator pointed out- what is he doing sucking up to Bush just as Bush's approval ratings reach their lowest point ever?

I don't think this will win McCain the support of remaining Bush loyalists (all 3 of them). And it just reinforces the notion that he is anything but a maverick- rather he is just a standard politician that will pander however he sees fit in order to serve his political career.

[lance sjogren]

The other thing is:

I don't think the brain damage theory makes much sense as far as McCain.

Because how does that explain why so many other Senators are supporting the same absurd immigration policies?

If you have a theory that the Senate chambers are filled with some sort of brain-debilitating chemical that gradually corrodes the IQ of the members of the U.S. Senate, that theory would make more sense in explaining what's going on there.

[Froufrou]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">In fact, when his back is to the wall, which I believe it will be as he is forced to explain what in the hell he thinks he's doing as far as immigration policy, it wouldn't surprise me if he tries to change the subject by waxing nostalgic about his past as a war hero.
[/QUOTE]

Except I think it will work. I hope we don't get a chance to find out!

I think he's trying to appear moderate, although I posted a thread recently stating he is NOT and that he is a staunch conservative. http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laff.gif

[seattleyounggop]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">I think he's trying to appear moderate, although I posted a thread recently stating he is NOT and that he is a staunch conservative[/QUOTE]
You are correct. Overall, with the exception of the last couple years, he has had a strong conservative record. However he is unpredicatable. You never know when or on what issue he'll be &quot;bi-partisan.&quot;

[Old Man]

He wants to be President and right or wrong, believes like many who have commented here, that he has to appear to be moderate to win the general election.

For those who say he has to get past the base, look a the top people who are getting the majority of Republican support. Not one is a staunch conservative. Our base is so eroded that of the 37% registered Repubicans we (those of us on this forum who post conservative views) may be less than 20% of the total voting population. That means a popular moderate can win even if we don't vote as long as we don't vote against him for a Democrat. Even if we vote 3rd party, a popular Giuliani or McCain may still win.

McCain was shown, in a race against Hillary, of getting 21% of the Democratic vote. That would, in and of itself, cancel our lack of vote or vote for a 3rd party. We have to realize that even in the last ten years, the nation and even many Republicans have moved further left. 10 years of new graduates from liberal schools make a big diffeence. 10 years of seniors that remember pre 1960 American, dying and being replaced with a left leaning young person.

That is why the courts and education are key to taking this nation back and you can't take education back if the courts don't support you. That is why we have to have Republicans that will at least appoint strict constructionalists to the Bench. Without that Court, we can't win the long race against socialism because they will use the courts to get what they want.

One more thing about McCain, I don't trust him but, he may be fooling us in a way we don't expect. In view of his more conservative record before he decided to run for President, once in office, he might revert back to that and provide better leadership than we expect. He will be 73 when and if elected and could very well be planning a one term Presidency with a Vice President he will make popular. He would be 77 for his 2nd term and he may not believe his health will be good enough to run again.

Thus, with a &quot;nothing to lose&quot; attitude, he could act like a conservative bear in office and not give an hoot nor holler for what the liberal press or democrats say about the way he is running the office. At least that will be my hope if he gets the nomination. I will support him over a Democrat if for no other reason than I know what I will get for Court appointments with them and don't like what that is.

[lance sjogren]

McCain could win a general election, on that I agree.

I think his chances of winning the Republican nomination are really slim, however.

I'm banking heavily on my expectation that immigration trips him up, however.

He is already beginning to get flak for his stand on immigration.

Illegal immigration is not going to get any better. People keep pouring in.

That means Americans are getting hit harder and harder by the problem every day.

I can't imagine that illegal immigration will not be a huge issue in the 2008 election. And no matter what one's own views are on the issue, one thing is for sure and that is that McCain's views are diametrically opposite to what the people support.

[lance sjogren]

Now to be up front I will say I am not particularly a conservative on all issues.

However, even if I were, I wouldn't support McCain in a million years.

His immigration proposal, if put into law, would destroy the United States.

And that would render all other issues irrelevant.

[lance sjogren]

Actually, my last post was kind of confusing.


A better way to put it:

I don't care what McCain stands for on any other issue, nor whether his stand on any such issue agrees with what I believe in.

I consider his stand on immigration an automatic disqualifier.

[jackbenimble]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">I agree with the person who commented that immigration is not necessarily as big an issue nationwide as it is in border states, but it is getting there. Just look at all the immigration reform groups sprouting up in places like North Carolina, Connecticut, etc.[/QUOTE]

And not only that but it is a major issue in the State Legislatures for many non-border states. Georgia is on the verge of passing a VERY tough law and Oklahoma has tough legislation moving. Virginia and Maryland are looking at the issue. Kanasas almost repealed instate tuition for illegals and Utah is looking at doing that too. And Wisconsin I believe just repealed giving drivers licenses to illegals and I believe even Vermont is trying to get something done.

I suspect politicians are catching an ear load about it. I frequently see national politicians quoted as saying essentially: &quot;That illegal immigration issue has become the number one issue with their constituents and they can't meet with their constituents without it coming up. IF they try to have a townhall meeting about Medicare Prescription Drugs it turns into a debate about illegal immigration&quot;.

It is amazing to watch Hillary and McCain singing from the exact same songbook. What they are singing is almost exactly the same tune as President Bush has been singing and was singing both times he got elected. I'm pleased to see so many people who voted for Bush saying now that they won't vote for McCain at least partially because of his position on this issue. We are making progress!

Regards,
Jack

[Terri]

My #1 reason not to vote for McCain is his mental instability. That trumps all other issues.

[Old Man]

Boy, I hope you are right Jack. The McCain bill is being actively supported by the Democrats because it is almost what they want to help move socialism forward and get them more votes, they beleive.

I still think that if we keep moving the direction we are headed that soon, young college grads will go to foreign nations to work where the wages are lower but the buying power is higher. Think about a young talented engineer that is offered a $60,000 job here but can go an work in China for $20,000 and live like a person making $80,000 even though it might be in a smaller home. Although that is changing there too with their new housing boom toward larger homes.

That may not be here yet, but I fear the day is coming in the next decade or so as we slid down further and they slide up further. Some believe it will only be about a decade until they pass us in GDP (per capita would still be lower). They are already the number one consumer (except oil) and luxury item sale are huge in China now.

They need 1200 pilots a year just to keep up with growing airline traffic in and out and Chinese are becoming huge tourist clients for other countries including the U.S. We make the mistake of focusing on their poor when the number of middle class already out number ours and in about 6 years will outnumber our entire population by about 200 million.

In that decade, where will be be with millions of illegals (made legal) and low skills, low eduction, low income, paying no income taxes, and keeping wages lower than need be. What will our healtcare costs be, our social security system? Remember a low wage earner gets to count 90% of his wages toward his social security check, while a higher wage earner only gets to count 32% of everything he makes above $606 a month and only 15% over $3653 a month.

That means, the people who make the least get the majority of benefit from what they pay in and if they are the huge majority, and the minority are those paying in but only getting 32% or 15% There is going to be a big imbalance because it takes a majority paying in more than they take out even now, to meet the demand.

Source for S.S. figures (http://www.aarp.org/research/socialsecurity/benefits/aresearch-import-354-FS59R.html)

So, yes, I hope you are right, Jack. But I think the socialists have taken us so far, the majority will support only a secure border and not demanding the illegals leave nor that we reform our education system to create more and higher skilled workers.

[MeanOldGrouch]

Terri:<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">My #1 reason not to vote for McCain is his mental instability. That trumps all other issues. [/QUOTE]

I agree. And his mental inability is the major reason why he lives in this dream world where he still thinks that AZ voters support him. Not that I don't think that AZ has a high percentage of illegals voting in the elections but hopefully we can force some &quot;policing&quot; of the polls between now and election time. McCain needs to retire. Rest assured, he has money because ALL POW's receive money from the gov't based on the fact, alone, that they were POW's. He won't starve if he sits around for the rest of his life. I just hope the Republicans have sense enough to see that.

I don't think he can EVER win the nomination and if he does, I will turn my back on the Republican party forever because I will know they have totally lost all sense of reasoning.

[Old Man]

Many can't understand why the &quot;amnesty&quot; through a guest worker program is constantly bantied about. Last Jan. the Washington Post did a poll.
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr class="standard"><td>Quote </td></tr><tr class="standard"><td class="QUOTE">Respondents were asked &quot;Do you think illegal immigrants who are living and working in the United States now should be offered a chance to keep their jobs and eventually apply for legal status, or do you think they should be deported back to their native country?&quot; Sixty-one percent said undocumented immigrants should be able to keep their jobs and apply for legal status, compared to 36% who thought they should be deported[/QUOTE]
Washington Post Poll on Immigration Issues Released (http://www.visalaw.com/05feb1/14feb105.html)

Yes, I know polls can be manipulated but so can politicians be manipulated by polls.

Even in Arizona, one poll I saw showed over 50% of Republicans supporting this concept of letting them stay if they have a job.

This is why Tom Tancredo has been working so hard traveling around the nation speaking out on this issue. The voters are ignorant when it comes to what illegal immigration is costing them. They want to &quot;feel good&quot; and &quot;do the right thing&quot; for &quot;oppressed people.&quot;

This is the same tactic that swells the welfare roles with career welfare recipients who shouldn't be on the welfare roles in the first place. But, we have to &quot;do the right thing&quot; for &quot;the needy.&quot;

How else do you explain McCain getting 82% of the Repubican vote against Hillary. That is only 18% of Repubicans that aren't voting for him and some of that is covered in the &quot;won't vote or undecided&quot; category.

I think too many are overlooking how far the voters have moved left on some very dangerous issues. In some states that isn't true but, an national level, I believe it is true. That is why we have to start taking power from Washington and getting it back into the states so that when there is a national issue, people in the states will be more willing to speak up. Right now they seem content (not the people on this forum) to let Washington lead the states around by the nose. Maybe they don't want to risk the federal spending that goes to the states?