Female captive first since Pentagon altered rule

[Terri]

Female captive first since Pentagon altered rule

By Joyce Howard Price
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
March 23, 2003

One of the five U.S. soldiers captured by Iraqi forces and questioned on Iraqi television is the first female POW since the Clinton administration's military leaders repealed a rule barring servicewomen from positions with a high risk of encountering enemy fire or capture.

In 1994, the Pentagon, under Defense Secretary Les Aspin, discarded the "Risk Rule" and authorized women to serve in any post other than in frontline infantry, special-operations forces, or armor or artillery units.

The Pentagon was swayed by feminists, said Elaine Donnelly, president of the Military Readiness Center, an independent public policy organization that specializes in military personnel issues.

Full Story (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030324-30441656.htm)

This needs changing. Women have no place in combat roles.

[victor]

I agree,women should not be in combat,just for the fact of there women's things could happen when on a mission and I find it hard to believe that a 110 lb woman can carry a 210 lb wounded man who is dead weight.dont get me wrong I'm not saying that women should not be in the military ,just not in combat.

[lpara]

<span style='font-family:comic sans ms'>I agree, too. No combat. Last night I heard a general say that it is just as bad for men taken as POW's as it is for women. They do the same type of things to both. Parking lot. Pronto. </span>

[pRIMrose]

I'm in total agreement(almost). No women in combat. For all the obvious reasons. How many women can lug around 90 to 150 lbs of equipment in the heat of the desert? How many can perform the necessary duties that require a man's physical strength? There are plenty of critical and usefull places for women, but combat is not one of them. One exception ~ aviation. If she can fly a plane then she should be allowed to do so, even at the risk of being captured. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twocents.gif

[nebula]

I knew I shouldn't read this thread. But here goes. If a woman can do the job, and wants to do the job, then she should not be held back by someone else's sense of whether or not it is appropriate.

This is my country. I have as much right to fight for it as any man. In any capacity I am qualified in. Favoritism? No. But if I qualify by the same standards as any other enlisted/officer then that job is mine!

And, btw, where did people get the idea that women shouldn't fight for their homes and country? We settled this country right alongside the men. We farmed, hunted, fished and fought (with guns) right alongside the men.

War doesn't leave anyone untouched. Women are capable of doing what is needed, when it is needed. Should everyone be in combat? Of course not. But don't hold me back because YOU have a problem with it.

As for women POW's. It sucks whether you are a man or a woman. Personally, I think a man would find it more difficult to handle rape than a woman. Women KNOW it can happen any time. We are aware of it, we think about how we would handle it if it ever happens, some of us have lived through it. We deal. We don't decide to hate men. We don't let it cripple our lives. We sure as He!! don't let it stop us from doing what we want with our lives.

OK, let the feeding frenzy begin.

[Leelanau]

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yelclap.gif http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yelclap.gif I said much the same thing in the forum earlier! http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yelclap.gif http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yelclap.gif

[Charie]

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twothumbsup.gif *But don't know if this is where we part ways or not. *The basic requirements of being a combat soldier should NOT be lowered for women. *They have to be able to do all of the physical requirements. *I thought that lowering them was one of the http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif -est things I ever heard of. *There are basic requirements for every job, especially where someone's life can hang in the balance.

[Model1911]

i beileve women should be able to have the chance to enter front line combat. BUT, in order for this to happen that have to meet all the physical requirments that men do, to the exact extent. I.E. Push ups, sit ups, running, carrying weight loads, and the mental challenge that comes with it. My friend is in the military, and when he was in training. He said that the women didn't have to go out and hike like the rest of the men did, cause it was raining. That to me is BS, if you cannot endure the same physical hardships as men, then you have no business in being in the military.

[pRIMrose]

Hi Model1911 http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wavey.gif Couldn't agree more. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twothumbsup.gif If I'm in a foxhole, I want the biggest, strongest, meanest guy around to back me up. And I'm sure he would feel the same way. Guns are great equalizers, but it's the toting them around that counts. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[littlemissdotts]

A few points here - I'm new to posting so bear with me. *Women do not belong in combat. *For a majority of us, we are still the physically weaker sex. *There's nothing wrong with serving in the military in non-combat functions. *I myself was an MP. *We took care of the MSR's (main supply routes) and the POW camps as part of our company wartime mission. *I don't doubt that they have most likely violated that woman repeatedly. *No women should have to endure that. *And how do you think it is affecting the male soldiers to know that it is happening? *Male chivarly is still alive thank goodness. *As far as women on the front lines, what happens if a women is shot or fatally injured? *You cannot tell me that most men will not linger over her because she is a woman thereby further endangering themselves, their unit, and possibly the mission.

Yes, in basic the standards are different (1987) which I do not agree with. *Just to get into basic training I had to prove I could do 1 whole pushup. * The guys had to do 13 to enter basic. *I had to do 13 when I graduated. *On the obstacle course they had those stupid white steps or different guidelines for females. *(I didn't use them and turned them over when I came to them.) *We still had to do everything - march, run, train, etc in the mud, rain, cold, etc. &quot;If it ain't raining, it ain't training!&quot;

basically, women belong in the rear with the gear.

[matthewfink]

I have really been trying to stay out of this discussion, but I just can't any longer. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

First, if she wants to join, I say more power to her... if she can qualify. If she wants equality, give her equality.

I served 21 years in our Navy, and I was married to an active duty female who was one of the most professional sailors I ever served with. I had already retired by '91, but she volunteered to sevre in Bahrain during Gulf War I.

Quote[/b] ]basically, women belong in the rear with the gear.

One problem I have with this from a Navy point of view is this: there are a limited number of shore duty billets and a certain number of sea duty billets... if all the females are &quot;in the rear with the gear&quot;, the males have to spend more time on sea duty and make more deployments away from family.

Another problem is that promotions are based partly on experience, and if females don't have similar experiences to their male counterparts, they are not going to be promoted equally.

[nekela]

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I have to agree that women shouldn't be in combat units unless they can meet all requiremnets , especially the one about weight carrying. I know I wouldn't want to be in a position where I was wounded so that I was not ambulatory and have to depend on a 115 lb gal to get me out of harms way. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[rodog]

Hello, this is my first time posting. I am a vet. I don't think women belong in combat. Regardless of what their supporters say, this country is not prepared to see women prisoners raped and sexually abused by the enemy.

[ALLEN L. WELLS]

THIS IS A TOUGH ISSUE. *I CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE FROM A NAVY STANDPOINT SINCE THAT IS WHERE MY EXPERIENCE *IS. *DON'T GET ME WRONG HERE I BELIEVE WOMEN HAVE MADE GREAT CONTRIBUTIONS TO NAVAL SERVICE. *INITIALLY A GREAT NUMBER OF PROBLEMS HAD TO BE OVERCOME; ESPECIALLY THOSE INVOLVED WITH ASSIGNMENT OF WOMEN TO SHIPBOARD DUTIES; AND MANY OTHER PROBLEMS WHICH HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED. *ONE THING I DIDN'T SEE DISCUSSED WAS THE NAVY WOULD NOT HAVE MET RECRUITING REQUIREMENTS IF WOMEN COULD NOT BE ASSIGNED TO SHIPS. *BUT, THESE PROBLEMS WERE OVERCOME AND EVERYBODY MOVED FORWARD. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

GENERALLY SPEAKING WOMEN SERVING ABOARD SHIPS WOULD NOT , EXCEPT ON RARE OCCASIONS, BE SUBJECT TO ENEMY CAPTURE. *IN OTHER AREAS THIS WOULD NOT BE THE CASE, PILOTS FOR EXAMPLE. *HAVING WOMEN CAPTURED PRESENTS A WHOLE NEW SET OF PROBLEMS. *THEY ARE SUBJECTED TO A DIFFERENT SET OF ABUSES THAN MEN WOULD BE. *I JUST DON'T BELIEVE WOMEN SHOULD PLACED IN POSITIONS WHERE THEY ARE SUBJECT TO CAPTURE. *http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Bill Dillon]

POW status highlights a real PROBLEM of women in the military.

Several of POWs I've talked to who got brutalized in Hanoi said they could hear their buddies being tortured. *They understood they'd be next but the horror of it all was lessened somewhat by knowing they all were in the same boat. *They would tap out messages of support.

They endured because they were males of kindred spirit.

They were not so sure exactly how they would react if they heard a female POW being tortured. *It adds a different factor into the mix of horror. *

In spite of the feminist &quot;movement&quot;, American males still are protective of females which also adds to the frustration and sense of helplessness which could prey on a POWs mind.

Women are different and esteemed with a sense of protection by male American military members.

Being a POW is surely bad enough. *Enduring the sounds -- or, worse yet, a gruesome show and tell by a sadistic rapist -- of female agony makes it all the more worse.

Bill Dillon
USAF, Retired

[Terri]

This is a great discussion. You all express yourselves so well.

Welcome to littlemissdotts and rodog! We're glad you are here and hope you will post often.

You too, Bill! We don't see you often enough.

And of course, I like seeing all the members who come around daily too. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif