Rash of illegals crashing through U.S.

[Terri]

Rash of illegals crashing through U.S. port-of-entry

By Jon Dougherty
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
April 6, 2003

A United States Border Patrol agent says three vehicles in two weeks have "busted" through the Otay Mesa port of entry near San Diego from Mexico and that two of the three weren't caught.

The agent, who patrols in southern California and requested anonymity, said the port runners, as they are called, break into the U.S. by driving northbound in southbound lanes of port-of-entry traffic, which poses a danger to other vehicles heading to Mexico.

Full Story (http://www.worldnetdaily.co m/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ ID=31888)

[Bill Hodges]

Quote[/b] ]Rash of illegals crashing through U.S. port-of-entry

By Jon Dougherty
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
April 6, 2003

A United States Border Patrol agent says three vehicles in two weeks have "busted" through the Otay Mesa port of entry near San Diego from Mexico and that two of the three weren't caught.



If this story is accurate, I would think that deadly force would be acceptable during such events to ensure public safety. Am I wrong for feeling this way? We must enforce the protection of our borders and begin to take these things seriously. What if the two out of the three busses that got away are carrying biological or chemical weapons intended to be used against American citizens?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * William (Bill) Douglas Hodges
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T/O Ranch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Erick, Oklahoma



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[jhf]

For "Bill" Hodges, I think the answer to the question is "No"; deadly force wouldn't be authorized in the circumstances described. Of course, each situation has to be viewed "in the totality of the circumstances" as the courts have said. I was a Border Patrol Agent for about 27 years and am still a union representative. I'd hate to have to represent an Agent who shot someone in the situation descibed. The vehicle that was located was just another "load" of aliens, and I imagine that was the assumption with the two vehicles that weren't located. I wouldn't want to be an Agent who fired into a vehicle that was running the port and then found out it was just aliens.

There are three times when deadly force can be used: to defend your own life, a fellow officer's life or an innocent third party. If the actions of the port-runner presented any one of those three criteria, deadly force should be permitted. Usually a law enforcement officer has a split second to decide whether or not to use deadly force; then the courts often take months or years to decide if it was justified.

Your point that the two vehicles which were lost could have been carrying anything, including weapons of mass destruction, is obviously correct. In spite of all the chest-beating and bluster since "9/11", the security of the borders of this country isn't noticeably better than it was. This situation points it out, and I think a private conversation with any Border Patrol Agent or the Inspectors at the ports of entry will confirm it. I think most, not all, politicians - Democrats and Republicans alike - would like to see illegal immigration stopped. The problem is the country is addicted to the cheap labor, potential voters, potential union members, etc., etc. Like any other addiction, it's very hard to quit. The White House and Congress are afraid of alienating any of the many special interest groups who defend or benefit from illegal immigration.

The immigration laws will never be seriously enforced until a majority of the American voters rise up and convince the politicians that their political lives depend on it.

[Bill Hodges]

Quote[/b] ]The vehicle that was located was just another "load" of aliens, and I imagine that was the assumption with the two vehicles that weren't located. *I wouldn't want to be an Agent who fired into a vehicle that was running the port and then found out it was just aliens. *



What about in the future (I was speaking hypothetically earlier for the sake of thoughtful debate). And if in the future this happens and it does turn out to be a "dirty bomb", etc.?


Quote[/b] ]There are three times when deadly force can be used: to defend your own life, a fellow officer's life or an innocent third party. *If the actions of the port-runner presented any one of those three criteria, deadly force should be permitted.

Is it not an endangerment to the public when a fully loaded bus rushes through a border gate AGAINST the flow of traffic? If the run results in a head-on collision and ultimately the death/deaths of innocent people driving on the right of way, could that not have been an argument for the use of deadly force? Remember, this is merely for the sake of debate and I'm only speaking in hypothetical terms of possible scenarios.


Quote[/b] ]most, not all, politicians - Democrats and Republicans alike - would like to see illegal immigration stopped. *The problem is the country is addicted to the cheap labor, potential voters, potential union members, etc., etc. *Like any other addiction, it's very hard to quit. *The White House and Congress are afraid of alienating any of the many special interest groups who defend or benefit from illegal immigration.



This statement you have made is somewhat of an observation of contradiction. I agree and disagree with you on the grounds that I believe if the elected officials WERE serious about the issue, they would put a stop to this "addiction" you speak of. I also disagree that the main "addiction" is cheap labor. While cheap labor may be a contributing factor to the problem, I believe the politician's "addiction" is a fast growing potential constituency with the offer of vast numbers of voting blocks.


Quote[/b] ]The immigration laws will never be seriously enforced until a majority of the American voters rise up and convince the politicians that their political lives depend on it.

I wholeheartedly agree.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *William (Bill) Douglas Hodges
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *T/O Ranch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Erick, Oklahoma



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[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]The immigration laws will never be seriously enforced until a majority of the American voters rise up and convince the politicians that their political lives depend on it.
I agree with that too. *

However, I have a hard time imagining that scenario. *When people "rise up", it's quickly thrust into the media, who rushes headlong to get an "equal opposing view" from the people that DO profit from illegal immigration. *

And in order for those people to keep their job, they make it a racist issue. *So, essentially, Political Correctness is the opiate of the masses.

As far as firing a gun near the border, may I remind you were talking about CALIFORNIA. If you pull the trigger, and even if you were completely justified, they'll have their way with you, take your weapon until you can PROVE yourself innocent.

All that before the above mentioned groups get a hold of you and accuse you of being a trigger-happy Mexican-hater. I couldn't imagine the heck that a BP Officer would go through for simply doing his job. Again - PC is killing this country.

[jhf]

Sorry, "Azwhitewolf"; I had a picture in my mind of what I meant - just didn't say it.

I agree that the media won't honestly address the immigration mess in this country. When I say that the voters will have to rise up, I mean they will have to do it by some kind of direct contact with the politicians - meetings, letters, emails, FAX'es, phone calls, etc. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, I don't think it's likely to happen.

[Saber]

Quote[/b] ]When I say that the voters will have to rise up, I mean they will have to do it by some kind of direct contact with the politicians - meetings, letters, emails, FAX'es, phone calls, etc. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, I don't think it's likely to happen.

OH! I believe it's being done alright....ad nauseum. Problem is that it doesn't mean squat to them. Until we give them "direct contact" by way of the voting booth...we're falling on deaf ears.

[azwhitewolf]

Quote[/b] ]When I say that the voters will have to rise up, I mean they will have to do it by some kind of direct contact with the politicians - meetings, letters, emails, FAX'es, phone calls, etc. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, I don't think it's likely to happen. Quote[/b] ]we're falling on deaf ears.
It's getting to the point where conservatives are going to need to become activists. Yeah, I hate that word too, but if the liberals keep doing what they're doing, the US will be ruined in only a few generations. Look at what we have now:

A college professor calling for death of soldiers. Protected by his Union.
Busy streets blocked for idiot waiting to get run over. Police are neutered.

I mean, I could go on and on. This is ridiculous. GOPUSA is a great springboard for something bigger and louder. Charton Heston, a man worthy of respect in accomplishment was systematically torn down by the left because he was an effective and respected leader. I think we let it happen in a way, and it never should have been tolerated. That's one of many examples that we need to stand up and back.

Especially when the guy is right! http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

My two cents.

[celticon]

I think we should put those one way spike stoppers on the southbound lanes. *People slow down anyway to cross, so if anyone came blasting the wrong way, their tires would be slashed. *Unless, of course, they had former drive-in experience and had some friends there to lay a plank down to hold the spikes down. Sounds like a plan, eh? *Tom Todd

[Bill Hodges]

Quote[/b] ]I think we should put those one way spike stoppers on the southbound lanes. People slow down anyway to cross, so if anyone came blasting the wrong way, their tires would be slashed. Unless, of course, they had former drive-in experience and had some friends there to lay a plank down to hold the spikes down. Sounds like a plan, eh? Tom Todd



I was discussing this with one of my people this morning and they mentioned the exact same thing. I felt like a fool for not thinking of it as well. It seems not only logically simple but practical and inexpensive as well. I think it would DEFINITELY put a quick stop to what is going on.

William (Bill) Douglas Hodges
T/O Ranch
Erick, Oklahoma



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[Saber]

It is impossible to sue the government, right? *RIGHT?

Is there no way to get around this somehow? *I mean false representation or something for not following an OATH OF OFFICE to protect and defend this country from foreign invaders?

Hell, now we've got reports of 12(?) ME terrorists in Mexico fanagling with organized crime down there to get them in here so they can perform terrorist acts!

I'll repeat.....we've got LOTS of our very own military guarding the borders of Afganistan (and probably thousands more about to guard Iraq) and we have NONE on our own porous borders. *Just what does "NATIONAL GUARD" mean anyway if not to GUARD the NATIONAL borders?http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

[celticon]

Sabre; *The founders never wanted a standing army because they saw what fruity George III did with his. *They did, however provide for a full time navy and relied on the "citizen soldier" to be the defense of America. *Washington had to call in a Prussian General to train his troops, so the National Guard is the result. *Every year these volunteers are trained and updated. *The last gulf war was full of guardsmen, and the worst casualty suffered by us were the kids from Pa. hit by a scud missle. *Thanks to Ronaldus Magnus we now have a totaly volunteer Army that has proven itself proudly. *What we need to guard the borders are not guardsmen, but state militias. *The Democraps need the illegals to vote for them, so they will fight fang and claw against the Arizona Militia or any other group that actually keeps the invaders out. *the governors of all the border states not only have the right, but I contend, the duty to use their State Militias for just that purpose. *In our Colorado Constitution, the militia is defined as any male between the ages of 18 and 45. *A well regulated militia is organized by the Governor and could be paid or strictly volunteer. *If you want the Fed involved, you will hav to support Tancredo's ideas, and he is hated by the looney left.
Feinstein, Boxer, Clinton, et al have no authority in the Sovereign States, so a Governor with guts could be very effective if the locals supported him. *Tom Todd

[Bill Hodges]

Quote[/b] ]Sabre; *The founders never wanted a standing army because they saw what fruity George III did with his. *They did, however provide for a full time navy and relied on the "citizen soldier" to be the defense of America. *Washington had to call in a Prussian General to train his troops, so the National Guard is the result. *Every year these volunteers are trained and updated. *The last gulf war was full of guardsmen, and the worst casualty suffered by us were the kids from Pa. hit by a scud missle. *Thanks to Ronaldus Magnus we now have a totaly volunteer Army that has proven itself proudly. *What we need to guard the borders are not guardsmen, but state militias. *The Democraps need the illegals to vote for them, so they will fight fang and claw against the Arizona Militia or any other group that actually keeps the invaders out. *the governors of all the border states not only have the right, but I contend, the duty to use their State Militias for just that purpose. *In our Colorado Constitution, the militia is defined as any male between the ages of 18 and 45. *A well regulated militia is organized by the Governor and could be paid or strictly volunteer. *If you want the Fed involved, you will hav to support Tancredo's ideas, and he is hated by the looney left.
Feinstein, Boxer, Clinton, et al have no authority in the Sovereign States, so a Governor with guts could be very effective if the locals supported him. *Tom Todd



Excellent observation and commentary, Tom. I feel more citizens need to learn the facts of exactly what a militia is and how to either be involved in one of their state's militias or work with their local government to help form one. In these times of terrorism and subversive attempts of anarchy, organized state militias are needed more than ever before.
The last Administration attempted to vilify and demonize citizen militias as being small, anti-American, backwooded subversive groups of people with the sole intention of overthrowing the government and abolishing the Constitution. Nothing could be further from the truth. Legitimately organized state militias are comprised of individuals from all walks of life consisting of a vast number of professionals such as those working in law enforcement, military reserve, legal counseling, medicine, banking, ranching and agriculture, etc., and the list goes on.
I feel it is time that people once again become more involved in the safety of their communities and this is just one way of doing it.
If a person would like to learn more about their state militia, they should contact their local state representative for more details. Some states have differing restrictions and guidelines governing their local militias (i.e. bonds, permits, licensing, etc.). Here is an excellent website to learn a little more about what a militia is: "www.washingtonstate militia.com". Though this source is geographically located in the Northwest, they are a wealth of information and can help direct you in finding answers to any questions you may have.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * William (Bill) Douglas Hodges
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T/O Ranch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Erick, Oklahoma



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[celticon]

Wild Bill; *The only problem with asking the statehouse to be informative on militias, etc., is most of them are graduates of the Marxist Public School system and don't have a clue. *Many of Colorado's legislature has been bought and paid for by the insurance lobby and serve their masters well with mandatory insurance and no fault. *Both are unconstitutional, and Prima Facia presumption of guilt by association with motor vehicle. *We have a great Governor here in Colorado in the person of Bill Owens, and he has kept his word trying to pass a statewide concealed carry bill, but the worm tounges in the statehouse are fighting him fang and claw. *the best we could do is volunteer to serve time with one of the state militias along the border. *As you rightly stated, the bonding, etc. to defray costs resulting from lawsuits can only be preempted by following the advice of Shakespear, "first, kill all the lawyers". *If citizens decide to patrol the borders, the only rub would come where the borders are on Federal holdings. *Another good reason to force the Fed to relinquish all it's stolen territory back to the states they stole it from. *Tom Todd *

[pRIMrose]

Then there is an old saying that goes " no use in shutting the barn door after the horse is long gone." http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tqrolleyes.gif Fact is, that in another twenty or thirty years (I don't know why I should worry) http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin2.gif the white/anglo will be in the minority. We have cities and towns popping up like mushrooms all along the borders which are hispanic en masse. They have their own local governments and have become the politicians in many of the larger, heavily populated hispanic states. They will be the new law makers of the future. Another words, to coin a phrase ~ the "tipping point" of American culture is close at hand.

And I do agree that "cheap Labor" is the driving force behind the reluctance to enforce our immigration policies. Corporate money speaks much louder than the cries of border farmers/families whose property and security are infringed daily. Special interests along with PC rule in this country. IMO, one day we will suffer the same dilemma as Canada. A nation divided cannot stand. I think "Honest Abe" said that many years ago. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif ~ And make no mistake ~ we can stick our http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ostrich.gif in the sand and pretend that it is going to get better, but without assimilation it will only get worse.

Tom Cancredo is fighting an uphill battle ~ we should all be supporting him to the max. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/twothumbsup.gif

[Saber]

Thanks for the info TomTodd. OK....so it's the STATE's who are to blame? I want BLAME! People are taking oaths to DEFEND this country and it is NOT being defended! We need to take a CASE to the forefront in this country about abandonment of our DEFENSE! Somebody in government is in charge of this and IMO it's treasonous that they are not doing their job. It needs to be brought front and center to the sleeping sheep of this country and I can think of no better way to awaken the masses.

That having been said, I support Tancredo with every bone in my body...and some from my wallet too. We simply MUST get this out to the public....ad nauseum....and years more of letter writing that seems to circle the toilet bowl is not and will not do it IMO. Something MUCH more pro-active is going to have to be done. I just hope this doesn't "hit the fan" by way of another terrorist act committed by an illegal that we can't find the inclination to send back. With the MANY great things that Bush has done, I continue to believe strongly that if this scenario raises its ugly mug....he will be toast.

[celticon]

Mexico has oil and other resources that have never been tapped properly to provide a decent economy. *Since Cortez first started his quest to subdue Mexico for their Catholic Majesties, it has been the killing zone and a prize for dictator after dictator. *As long as there is no constitution, there is no hope. *Don't forget, many of the immigrants crossing illegally are from Central and South America also. *Jr. has been convinced by his cronies that NAFTA is good for both countries, and if anything brings him down I think this will be the tipper. *Being an independent I have no influence with the power brokers, so it is up to you folks of the Pachyderm persuasion to put the pressure on your party bosses to force Vicente Fox to get his act together. Tom Todd

[jhf]

The article that started this "thread" (Is that the correct term?) mentioned the fact that they do have the built-in spike strips at the POE (port-of-entry) at San Ysidro, CA. They had so many drive-throughs that they finally did something. I don't know if any of the other larger POE's have them. Having worked for, and been involved with INS, since 1969, I know they're not going to spend the money until someone gets hurt or until enough people raise (heck) about it.

[Saber]

Well, seems to me that a heck of alot of people have been hurt by this invasion. From the taxpayers..to the hospitals...to the schools....to those people who lost their lives to the illegal SNIPER on the East Coast. Fox may have alot of fault in his lap....but so does anyone in our current government who has looked the other way for fear of angering our "best friend" Vincente. Very, Very http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[pRIMrose]

Quote[/b] ] Fox may have alot of fault in his lap....but so does anyone in our current government who has looked the other way

http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yelclap.gif http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yelclap.gif Ditto all the way! As for spike strips ~ that's just peachy at legit check points, but it isn't going to stop the thousands that pour across the borders in the dead of night, commit crimes just as deadly as a runaway bus, and land in our "social services" system. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tqrolleyes.gif

The politicians don't give a flying fig how they inconvenience the tax payer. All they care about are warm bodies that work cheap and possible future block voters via amnesty ~ blocks that are for sale to the highest bidder and to whomever promises the most goodies. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tqrolleyes.gif

[Der Alte]

If we could ever be so fortunate as to get the government to respond to the problem, the military on the border with open season on illegals could stop the influx in a few weeks. I say a few weeks because it would take that long for the word to get out. Now before you accuse me of being bloodthirsty and mean spirited, just think how many lives would be saved by stopping the people getting lost in the desert or being locked in a truck in the AZ wilderness. We wouldn't have to shoot very many - just enough so they would get the idea. In fact we could call it a life saving action. http://gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin5.gif

[Saber]

Well DerAlte, that's EXACTLY what I've read they do in Mexico to anyone illegally crossing THEIR Southern border. Shoot them on sight.

The hypocrisy is vile.