The church stayed home

[hilemanhouse]

The church stayed home
Written by: Carolyn Hileman

When one woman decided to have prayer ripped from our public schools, the church stayed home. When the ACLU said we could no longer pray at school-sporting events, the church stayed home. When our children could no longer mention Gods name in their graduation speeches, the church stayed home. When one man fought not to have a statue of the Ten Commandments taken away, the church stayed home. When our children could no longer have Christmas parties, sing Christian songs in school choir, the church stayed home.

Maybe it was all those hell fire and brimstone sermons that never seemed to carry with it any action other than the passing of the plate. Maybe it was those over zealous converts who were going to drag everyone kicking and screaming to Jesus whether they wanted it or not rather than show them the way through their actions. Maybe it is because we have been taught to turn our cheek, but I dare say that our founding fathers were taught from the Bible as we were. Yet they thought enough of what they read to go out and fight and shed their blood so that we could stay home.

Even little David when he felt threatened by that big OLE Giant didn’t blink an eye or consult modern day theories about what to do. He knelt down picked up a stone put it in his slingshot and landed it right between that giants eyes, guess he wasn’t in to turning the other cheek that day. Or perhaps he knew that if he did not stand up then he would not be able too later. That was then and this is now you say, besides the church isn’t as powerful as it used to be. Well you know what you are the church, it isn’t the beautiful stained glass windows. It isn’t the man or woman who stands up there on Sunday and gives the sermon, it is you and I.

It was you and I that turned our back and are now screaming because our churches let us down and didn’t stand up to religious tyranny. It is you and I that sit at home and say to our selves that the president shouldn’t be using the word God in his speeches so much it is going to get him in trouble. When we should be thankful that he is one piece of the church that chose not to stay home. If only we could be more like him, unafraid to show our belief in God and do what we know in hearts is right then maybe just maybe we could accomplish something. But no, not us stand up for what we believe in? Demand the rights that our founding fathers fought for and believed in so much that they had it added to the constitution.

Could it be that we really do not believe in or trust God? Do we think that if we step out on a limb he won’t be there to hold it for us? Are you really going to tell me that the ACLU is more powerful than the church, than GOD? When you strip away the building, move the altar in the back and fire the preacher you still have a church and I don’t care if it is just you standing there. That church has a responsibility to its self, the people, and the community and to God. We have not been handling that responsibility very well have we? Right now we need the church to come together like never before, we are being attacked at every angle on a daily basis. Will we let them burn our churches to the ground before we scream enough?

For those of you who feel the church has left you behind, perhaps it is because you were asleep the whole time you were there. I heard a man say not to long ago that he believed in God, went to church every Sunday and all of that but it was not any of his business what the other people did. I wanted to ask him what exactly he went for, just to say he was there? I mean really does he think that God has a score book up there and looks at it and says well it looks like you missed a day sorry. I think he is more likely to ask him, when you woke up and left what did you do? If you are just going to warm a pew, you are just taking up space. If you don’t get something out of it that you can bring out with you and give to someone else, even if it is just a smile you have just wasted your trip. If you are there just because you were taught to go church, not because you believe you belong there and you believe what the bible is telling you, then you should have gone fishing. Sitting on a pew does not make a part of anything, kneeling down beside it does.


So the next time you find your self complaining about yet another freedom being taken away and the church doing nothing to try and stop it, go look in the mirror and scream at yourself. Only when the church stands together and stops waiting for the grand institution to of “THE CHURCH” to handle it will we be free to worship as we please. Will we the church stand together and demand our rights back or will once again this be a case of the church stayed home?

[stharrybygrace]

Carolyn, one of the big problems in the American church is that for about 40 years or so we have become completly anti-intellectual. The thinking process has become lost by leaders who wanted large, easy to manage churches. We were lazy enough to go along because it was easier and more exciting than the tedious process of learning theology. In going along, the US church has written its own suicide pact. I am extremely thankful that I had men in my life who made me as a young Christian learn what it all really meant.

[Mary-Lou]

Carolyn, you posted this exact same post on another website where the people are not as civil as they are here. What exactly is your beef? Personnally i think you are bloviating, to quote BOR. Rather that reiterate my other post, I think you should be aware that the folks on this website will put up with you for a while, but eventually they will tire of your rhetoric and ignore you. That's what I intend to do right now. Bye Bye.

[Basheva]

I see merit in what hilemanhouse has said.

It seems like a fairly simple statement that if each of us doesn't stand up for our beliefs, to see that they are not denigrated, we will lose the freedom to pursue those beliefs.

I don't think that hilemanhouse is speaking solely about a mortar and bricks church, but a church (synagogue, temple, and yes, mosque) within one's head as well.

What we see now is the steadily progressive nature of neutralizing every aspect of belief in every day life. Mere mentions of the Deity are now being taken to task. What next?

I think people do need to stand up for the symbols of our Judeo-Christian heritage - before they are lost to sight entirely.

For the record....I am not a brick and mortar chuch goer. That doesn't mean that I don't pray and believe absolutely in a Creator. And it surely doesn't mean that I want bricks and mortar churches to be denigrated.

What have I missed?

[Danny]

I see no beef in what was written by Carolyn Hileman at all!

It was all the truth if anything!

No matter who or where this post originated, it doesn't matter, I'm glad to see other people open their eyes to this pathetic reality of the dismantleling of God and every religious symbol altogether (Particularly little Crosses)! Although ,they do seem to be trying their best to shove the practice of Islam down our throats with the excuse Well the children should understand the practice is not all about a Jihad And Terror, (I doubt that very much) and it's nothing short of promoting one
religion in place of all others, period, I see it as a war they started from the end of World War Two and is ongoing today! They'll never let up unless we fight to get it back and it's going to get ugly before it's all said and done!

Sometimes the truth can tick us off, but sometimes it's necessary for motivational purposes..

Judeo-Christian heritage! We built on it, now we need to honor it and defend it's values! http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag19.gif

[hilemanhouse]

I think by now most people know I post to several different boards and most people who follow my writing know why. My point has and will always be that we the people are the church and if we are going to gripe about what the church is not doing we need to go look in the mirror.... I cannot explain it any better than that.

[Original Rebel]

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I think you did just fine hilemanhouse. *I read it - all the way through. *All you did was put into words what I've been thinking for a long time. *I, too, realize that the church has been pretty much threatened into silence - and we (the congregation) has stood by and allowed it. *Not good. *I am aware that the church can be forced out of a "non-profit" category if it becomes political, but so what? *If the church has to begin to pay taxes in order to be heard, then we need to do it. *Get heard. *Stand up for our beliefs, and worry about the tax status later.

Thanx for your thoughtful insight.

http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bird16.gif

[Commodore Barrett]

The Commodore & his Lady unto the Forum: greetings at Mount Calvary!

Back during the Reagan Administration, a book came out entitled Why Conservative Churches Are Growing. The writer intended to show the split within American Christianity: one between the Social Christians, those who use the Church as a prop towards improving their standard in the Community, and those within the Church who take the teachings of Christ seriously. Some of these latter Christians are not in the traditional brick and mortar style denominations, while others prefer to work within what was called in the 17th & 18th Centuries AD the Low Church.

Likewise, we have been seeing within Christendom a turning back on our theology in favor of, again, see & be seen types, the feelgood variety instead of the discipline we see in the African-American denominations. Martin Luther King Jr. & MLK III, though within Baptist ranks, are at home with the African Methodist Episcopal traditions as well.

Elijah the Tishbite threw down the gauntlet on Mount Carmel: "How long halt ye between two opinions?" That question is still asked today.

[hilemanhouse]

Original Rebel and Commodore Barrett,

I thank both of you for reading completely through the article. I consider myself a good Christian however I get the feeling the good Lord was even talking to me in this one…

[MudPuppy]

Quote[/b] (Basheva @ June 27, 2004 -- 5:50 pm)]What have I missed?
Eternal Life.

Jesus (Yesheva), whom we call the Christ (i.e. the Anointed One) said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=JOHN+1 4:5-7&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)

Either that is the truth, or it is a lie. . . *All of the Hebrew Law and the Prophets testify of Him.

The god of Mohammad, Allah, is not a "Father", because he has no Son; "It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is." [Qur’an, Sura 19.35] (http://hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=468143) and in another place, "O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah (the Anointed One), Isa (Jesus) son of Marium (Mary) is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector." [Qur’an, Sura 4.171] (http://hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839)
Therefore, I conclude Allah cannot be the same as God of Moses: the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

All the ways of men do not lead to God. Everything believed is not the truth. Life is not found in the way of men which go on to destruction.

Believing in a creator god is not the same as believing God. Believing there is but one god is not the same as believing the One True God. The difference is of eternal consequence, as it is written; "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." (Proverbs 16:25) (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=PROV+1 6:25&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)

[Basheva]

MudPuppy - you are commenting on my quote - of which you have mistaken the meaning.

In fact the quote: *"What have I missed?" was not meant to ask what have I missed of religion or cognizance of religion, it was to ask "What have I missed in Hilemanhouse's article that elicited a negative response from someone. *It was not a philosophical nor a religious question.

But I should add here that had the quote "What have I missed?" been meant as a philosophical or religious conscious question - then I say:

You don't know me.

I have not revealed on this board any of the depth of my personal religious involvement.

Religion is a personal matter to me, and I keep it so.

I neither flaunt it nor impose it. Nor do I critique it in others.

[MudPuppy]

Quote[/b] (Basheva @ July 05, 2004 -- 10:55 am)]You don't know me.

I have not revealed on this board any of the depth of my personal religious involvement.

Religion is a personal matter to me, and I keep it so.

I neither flaunt it nor impose it. *Nor do I critique it in others.
You're right of course, I don't know you... But I’ve seen what you have written in response to hilemanhouses' post.

I'm somewhat puzzled, so please help me out... How is it that you have responded to this post which is, in essence, religious in its subject matter and yet not reveal your thoughts on religion?

Commodore even quoted Elijah the prophet from what is written in the Books of Kings to the idolatrous people of his generation.

I assure you, I have not misunderstood at all what you have written, but if I have please point out the error, that I may respond... As I have stated already, the Words of Jesus, the Christ as he said He was, is the truth, or He is a liar.

[Terri]

If I may interject here, please.

Both politics and religion are sensitive topics.

We don't have a religious forum here because our focus is politics.

We welcome the discussion of religion as it relates to politics but I will ask that no one critique anyone's religious view as that is beyond the scope of this forum.

We want everyone to feel comfortable to comment in all threads where the two topics meet.

It is possible to discuss the general topic without making it personal.

[Danny]

Quote[/b] ]I think people do need to stand up for the symbols of our Judeo-Christian heritage - before they are lost to sight entirely.

Mudpuppy! Maybe you want to take a closer look at what Basheva was writing! The above is a comment of what she had also written! It looks to me she is in agreement with hilemanhouse and not trying to prove her story to be negative in any way! And what she means by "Religion is a personal matter to me, and I keep it so is" is that she doesn't share with everybody her own personal faith! If you've noticed she does agree that organizations such as tha ACLU does have a problem with Judeo-Christin heritage,as she has in many posts without imposing a religious faith!

[Terri]

Please, let's get back to the discussion of this article in a general way and not discuss any individuals faith.

Thanks!

[hilemanhouse]

Terri, you may lock it or remove it if all it has been proven to have done is drive a wedge between the faithful. I can assure that was not my thoughts when posting this, the idea was to motivate not deteriorate.

[Terri]

No problem. There is no reason to close it.

There isn't any reason the column can't be discussed on it's merits.

Issues are what we do best. http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[hilemanhouse]

Ok, you are in charge, I just do not want it to turn good people against one another.

[lpara]

Quote[/b] ]It seems like a fairly simple statement that if each of us doesn't stand up for our beliefs, to see that they are not denigrated, we will lose the freedom to pursue those beliefs.

This seems to be the whole article in a nutshell. I agree, time to stand up and be heard as much as is possible. A small minority are dictating to us and we're lying down and playing http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dead.gif http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/shake.gif

This week I'll be printing 30 letters, give or take, (thank the Lord for database http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ) for our church membership to send to our senators/congressmen letting them know we are extremely against the homosexual marriage issue. July 11th has been named a Defeat the Homosexual Marriage issue in churches across America. So, we're going to be "heard" and we don't even have to shout http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif or picket. I have read that this type of correspondence has more merit than the email type.

[hilemanhouse]

lpara, you got it and we need more people like you... http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[rangerrebew]

I think one of the major problems of many people today is that they see a building as the church and not the deeper meaning; religion is seen as a symbol. Too frequently, churches are losing their purpose and that is to worship God and be an intermediary between God and man. They are not supposed to be social clubs as many have become. If anyone has seen the movie Simon Birch, you have seen that thought in action. I won't go into the specifics of my views except to say I have a spirtual relationship with God. All too often people go to church because they don't want to go to Hell; those of us with a spiritual relationship have already been there. My relationship with God is deep and personal whereas too many churches have become showcases of shallowness and a place to be seen on Sunday and don't exhibit the same personal relationship. What I am saying is that many people are not being provided the spirtiual food and rapport with God that makes them committed to a deeper, compassionate purpose. I am not suggesting that all churches are this way only that far too many are to provide the same kind of devotion to God and freedom of faith and devotion to protecting those freedoms that the founders understood. Yes, we are to blame because ignorance of the law (Of God) is no excuse. Without that law, the founders knew there would be chaos and that is too close to where this country is today. The churches need to get out of the political and feel good businesses and back to God's business and let the people take care of the rest.

Viet Nam Vet not for John Kerry http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag17.gif http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag17.gif

[hilemanhouse]

One word, AMEN!!!

[Original Rebel]

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Quote: hilemanhouse

"Original Rebel and Commodore Barrett,
I thank both of you for reading completely through the article. I consider myself a good Christian however I get the feeling the good Lord was even talking to me in this one… "

He may very well have been Carolyn, since it was a very truthful observance on your part.

Ranger, your comment that the church ought to get out of politics... concerns me a little. *I thought that that WAS the problem - the church has not been involved enough in politics for fear of losing their tax-free status. *I am of the opinion that it SHOULD get behind their parishioners (or in front of them to lead, as the case may be) because without the organization of the churches to help halt this inexorable march to socialism, we as individuals are not organized enough to have a big enough impact. *My point is that we have not thus far and I am sure that everyone here has been of their opinions for more than the last four years of Dubya's term. *I, for one, have felt this way for a long time and have not seen any "fight" in my church. *My church MUST also get behind us and stand up for the beliefs that they preach.

God has all but been kicked out of the administration of this nation already.


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[hilemanhouse]

I think what he was saying is that the churches have been too politically correct.We are so busy worrying about what everyone else thinks we stopped caring what God thinks.

[rangerrebew]

You are correct, Hilleman, the churches have gotten away from God and that is their number 1 purpose. It seems that they have become too concerned about PC and more concerned in matters of this world than matters of the next. I wasn't there but I'd be willing to bet that the preachers in the days of the founding were more concerned about the Word than the government; more concerned about morality and right and wrong on God's terms than man's. Churches have become more concerned in things of this world and that is idolatry. That is my opinion and opinions are like butts, everyone has one. I would like to be proven wrong about the places that are supposed to be the centers of worship and Christian light, but when churches (I was raised Episcopalian) such as the one in which I was raised have Masses for dogs (that is true) I would say their purpose has shifted. That is not an isolated event and we all know it.

Viet Nam vet not for John Kerry http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag17.gif http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/flag17.gif

[hilemanhouse]

Keep an eye out for my next one, I plan to give them a piece of my mind about being more worried about their tax status than leading their flock. http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif