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Osama bin Laden was a) killed by a unit overseen by what New Yorker reporter Seymour Hersh denounced as Vice President Dick Cheney's "executive assassination ring," which was b) sent into action based on intel derived from the now-outlawed "enhanced interrogation techniques," which were c) used on detainees captured during the George W. Bush administration, who were d) being held in now-outlawed "secret prisons" or in the intended-to-be-closed Gitmo.
President Obama's deputy national security advisor, John Brennan, confirmed that the death of bin Laden resulted from "a mosaic (of intelligence) appearing over time and by ... people who have been following bin Laden for many, many years." This explains why 81 percent of Republicans give former President George W. Bush "at least some of the credit" for bin Laden's death. U.S. security forces tracked and were able to kill bin Laden through the use of the discredited, maligned, and -- in some cases -- the discontinued terror-fighting policies and practices of Bush.
So how much credit do Democrats give Bush?
Not much. Only 35 percent of Democrats, according to The Washington Post, believe that Bush deserves "at least some of the credit." Yet Obama took advantage of policies the left attacked -- at least under Bush -- as wrong, illegal and immoral.
"Enhanced interrogation techniques" -- The Washington Post's associate editor and foreign affairs columnist, David Ignatius, writes, "Some of the detainees (who gave information that led to bin Laden's location) were subjected to 'enhanced interrogation techniques,' the CIA's formal name for what is now widely viewed as torture."
Gitmo and secret prisons, aka "black sites" (now closed by Obama) -- "The revelation," writes The Associated Press, "that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history."
Rendition, the practice of moving a detainee to a country with more severe interrogation policies -- "Current and former U.S. officials," according to The Associated Press, "say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania."
Bush-Cheney "executive assassination ring" -- Navy SEAL Team Six is part of the Joint Special Operations Command. Two years ago, The New Yorker's Pulitzer prize-winning Hersh denounced the JSOC by calling it Bush-Cheney's "executive assassination ring": "It is a special wing of our special operations community that is set up independently. They do not report to anybody, except in the Bush-Cheney days ... they reported directly to the Cheney office. ... Congress has no oversight of it. It's an executive assassination ring, essentially. ... That's been going on, in the name of all of us."
Intel from Bush detainees -- "Shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks," writes the AP, "detainees in the CIA's secret prison network told interrogators about an important courier ... who was close to bin Laden. ... Then in 2004, top al-Qaida operative Hassan Ghul was captured in Iraq. ... It was a key break in the hunt for bin Laden's personal courier. 'Hassan Ghul was the linchpin,' a U.S. official said."
For purposes of consistency, even if it's insincere, the all-praise-to-Obama crowd should couch their euphoria: "Yes, we celebrate the death of a villain. But his death in no way validates the use of methods and practices that violate human rights and send the wrong message about our principles and values as a people. The ends do not justify the means."
But, no. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., a leading waterboarding-is-torture and Bush-is-evil-and-incompetent critic, raised no reservations and was oblivious to the contradiction: "The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. ... (T)he death of Osama bin Laden is historic." Impressive.
Finally, Bush-haters deny him credit with the "Bush took his eye off the ball" assertion. After all, Bush did say, "I am truly not that concerned about (bin Laden)." President Obama, however, said much the same thing, assuming -- it turns out incorrectly -- that bin Laden "was in a cave somewhere." To the Bush-haters, "not that concerned" translates, of course, into not giving a rip about bin Laden and abandoning the hunt.
But Bush never quit. He was briefed on bin Laden at least once a week. Two weeks before he left office, Bush confidently predicted that bin Laden would "of course, absolutely" be found by a future president. "We have a lot of people looking for him, a lot of assets out there. He can't run forever."
And on May 1, 2011, Osama bin Laden stopped running. Forever.
Larry Elder is a best-selling author and radio talk-show host. To find out more about Larry Elder, or become an "Elderado," visit www.LarryElder.com To read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
COPYRIGHT 2011 LAURENCE A. ELDER
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM
May 5, 2011 @ 9:04 am
Of course Obama and the Democrats take all the credit. Hell Obama took credit for ordering the raid. We now know that he was on the golf course ( just where you would expect to find him) when the head of the CIA gave the order and that they had to drag him back to the White House.
Did you see the look on his face when he was talking about Osama. It look as if he had lost his hero. I don’t think Obama wanted Osama captured or killed. I don’t think he would have ordered the raid unless he gave the Pakistanis two or three hours notice so they intern could alert Osama that he needed to leave now.
Democrats have never been against enhanced interrogation methods they just took side to drum up more hate for Bush. They are the true party of hate.
IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! !
May 5, 2011 @ 9:41 am
As a conservative with strong views on fiscal responsibility, I want to be able to believe and support the views of this website. But onewildman (and you’re calling card “IMPEACH OBAMA NOW!” tag) and others like that, you make it very hard to do. When you make comments like Obama wanting to alert bin Laden so he could get away, and at the same time (on other posts) criticize him for taking too much credit, what happens is you lose credibility not only for your own views/comments, but for the others on here. As much as you want the political world to be completely black and white (and no, that’s not a racial message) no politician is completely evil/bad/wrong or completely pure/good/right. In my eyes, Obama has done PLENTY wrong as president and will hopefully be out of office in 18 months – just as Bush had a very long list of fiascos as president as well. But trying to squeeze every negative out of something that’s not there, just shows you are blinded by your own agenda and the party line, without thinking through the issues. That goes equally for the Republicans and the Democrats. Until there’s intellectual honesty, we will keep pointing fingers and fighting and not resolving issues.
May 5, 2011 @ 9:58 am
… bunch of Hooey… Barry does not align with “strong conservative values.”
May 5, 2011 @ 9:59 am
Cullen I don’t believe that you are a conservative. Yes i honestly believe that Obama did not want Osama captured or killed. He has shown his disdain for The United States over and over. not just while being President but for years prior to that.
Obama has done enough to be impeached. The republicans do not have the balls to start impeachment because they do not want to take the heat from the liberal media. They also know that senate would not have the votes to convict and complete the process. They know that democrats would never impeach one of their own.
Oh, one more thing there are no more tags like mine so it leads me to believe that you are just another liberal who has come to this site just to stir things up. It wont stop or discourage us from posting on this site. We are not like liberals we don’t storm off or runaway.
IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! !
May 5, 2011 @ 10:07 am
Callen,,,The intellectual honestly is that Obama is intellectually challenged when it comes to the economy, warfare, and basic human nature in their wish to be left alone to live their lives in peace without government interference at the personal level, and WITH government intervention at the international level of warfare and protection of their persons, the very thing governments were designed to do. He is morally disingenuous and challenged when it comes to trusting his word or his ability to put the interests of the people over his own. He deserves to be impeached, just on the basis of the unconstitutionality and deceptive passing of the bankrupting Obamacare. Will he realistically be impeached because of it. No, but we can only hope, and continue to voice our wishes.
May 5, 2011 @ 10:17 am
Dad – I never said anything supporting Obama/Barry. As always, people interpret what they want from what they read. He’s a disaster as a president, and I’m hopeful that someone will prove to be a worthwhile candidate to run against and defeat him.
onewildman – you just happen to use your “IMPEACH” tag every time and seem to comment on every article (and where the first on here). So no, I’m not some liberal here to “stir up trouble”, in fact I don’t believe I’ve ever voted for a Democrat for any major office in my 24 years of voting. But as usual, if someone hasn’t “drank the cool aid” and agrees with everything that’s posted here, then they must be a “liberal”. It’s nearly comical – all votes on here are either a “5″ or “1″. Unfortunately both sides of the aisle are so steadfast in believing that there’s only one view of the world and will take their positions to extremes, and will tote the party line simply because it’s the party line. As far as your comments that you honestly believe Obama wants bin Laden to live and commit more crimes against the US, that tells me that there’s no way you’d ever view things differently than a totally polarized good/evil view. He wants that just like Bush/Cheney ordered the attacks on 9/11 to hel their investments in defense contractors and Halliburton. Let me guess, Obama’s not releasing the photos because it’s all a scam and we actually captured Bin Laden and have moved him somewhere and are secretly helping him plan another attack. There’s conspiracy theories everywhere.
May 5, 2011 @ 12:29 pm
Obama is holding on to the pictures and will release them when it serves HIS purpose, not ours in typical socialist manipulative fashion,,,like two weeks before the election there will be a mysterious leak. Mysterious my A$$.
Next time our Seals need to shoot their cameras along with their guns and bring home the bacon to bury Bin Laden In, and his fellow Muslim Educated Obama Bin Manipulating.
May 5, 2011 @ 3:53 pm
Callen
How many lies from the man in the white house does it take you to lose the”us conservative should do it the polite way. How many of jyour fellow Americans has he lumped into a group only to demean them. How many communists that he appoints to the white house before you become a little upset and make derogatory comments about this JERK in the white house. As to resolving issues why dont you show us the progress you have made.
May 5, 2011 @ 9:31 pm
Cullen is like all liberals, when he cannot support his position, he starts going back to “Bush/Cheny and Haliburton”….like that justifies any and all of his outright conservative-bashing statements!
Then, for good measure, Cullen has to try to justify Obama’s behavior by pointing out everything he thinks that President Bush did wrong! How often do we see liberals point this out….every time they want to rationalize one of Obama’s outrageous deeds.
Cullen doesn’t realize it, but most conservatives don’t have a problem with differentiating between ”right from wrong,” or ”good from evil.” This is a “liberal dilemma” not a conservative one. Cullen has got a lot of issues he needs to work out for himself. I don’t think that onewildman’s tag line is the real problem Cullen has with what is posted here. Cullen must think he is a moderate but he should stop and wonder why all these conservative posts seem to bother him so much..
May 8, 2011 @ 2:26 pm
Callen, I applaud your sensible post. I would be interested in the specifics of your comment about the ‘PLENTY’ of wrong Obama has done; I hope it includes other areas besides fiscal management. Likewise, I’m interested in what you feel Bush’s fiascoes were.
May 5, 2011 @ 9:47 am
Bravo to our Navy Seals, who risked their lives to bring this criminal to his end. This is a good week for America. I am asking all my friends to flag their flags as a symbol of national unity. Please do so and pass the word. Our country will be criticised for taking out Osama, and we need to show the rest of the world that we stand together. I hope our enemies are now looking over their shoulder. The Yanks are coming!
May 5, 2011 @ 9:50 am
I reiterate that in war, if you intend to defeat the enemy and go home in peace, you MUST in many cases put on the face of the enemy in order to defeat him. Of course no civilized society would sanction killing or assassination in times of peace, but the necessities and exigencies of war force you to do otherwise evil things temporarily in order to permanently remove the evil. Any naivety in this regard just gets more of your people killed. The difference between them the evil and us the good is that when the shooting is over and the victory won, we go home in peace. The evil cockroaches on the other hand just bid their time in hiding until they can gather strength to feed on us again, or continue to feed on the dead carcasses of each other.
Obama the campaigner never understood this. Obama the President finally got some on the job training in reality.
May 5, 2011 @ 3:31 pm
Detonating an atom bomb can, in itself be termed a very evil act. However, as you say, the exegencies of war, promped President Truman too authorize the dropping of two A-bombs on Japan.
Yes, it killed many soldiers and non compatents alike, but, millions of lives, both American soldiers and Japanese were ultimately saved by this act.
Leon Panetta, probably got tired of Obummer’s nine months of dithering over killing Bin Laden and finally gave the go-ahead to take him out.
Obummer is a muslim. He didn’t want to kill Bin Laden, or any Muslim terrorist for that matter.
He was dragged away from his golf game to witness the already happening mission, in Pakiastan.
If you watched the video of his face and body language while he was watching in real time, you can see, he is plainly, an unhappy camper.
He learned nothing from his OJT.
May 5, 2011 @ 10:25 am
Larry, you are a sad case of “I wish it was this way.” Too bad for you, it wasn’t.
May 5, 2011 @ 10:56 am
Nice selective editing from the Associated Press article, Larry. Two paragraphs down from the “black sites” quote you gave is this paragraph:
“Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.”
The least you could do is link your sources for people to read for themselves: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden_hunt_for_bin_laden
May 5, 2011 @ 12:39 pm
Fedupwithpolitics, As far as Waterboarding is concerned, the minute one of these self-proclaimed fanatics announces themselves to be an enemy of the United States, I say It’s time to set them in front of a Franke and Annette Beach Movie and start waxing up our surf boards, although watching the movie might prove a more painful torture.
May 5, 2011 @ 10:57 am
Credit where credit is due. Go Navy Seals!
May 5, 2011 @ 10:57 am
He’s gone, it’s done, let’s move on. Geronimo!
May 5, 2011 @ 11:38 am
I get SO sick of the libs constantly squealing about “water boarding” being so terrible and calling it ”enhanced” torture.. What joke! First of all, the Geneva Convention doesn’t think that it is and terrorists don’t wear uniforms of any one country which is a G.C. requirement.
Every U.S. ”Special Forces” soldier including Seals gets waterboarded prior to graduation. How come the libs aren’t crying about that? I guess terrorists are more sensitive….
Libs—get a GRIP!
May 5, 2011 @ 9:48 pm
Let them chose….waterboarding or torture the way the muslims do it!
May 5, 2011 @ 12:01 pm
Food for thought:
Obama does not share our general abhorrence and anger over terrorist attacks. Deep down, he feels that we “deserve” the anger and hate of the oppressed peoples (especially those of Islamic persuasion). If that anger leads to attacks, well, then we deserve it.
Ergo, Obama did not have any real interest in “outing” Osama. His dilemma was that Osama’s location, while not known to the public, was certainly becoming known to many members of the intelligence community. So many that, eventually, that knowledge (of Obama’s knowledge) would inevitably be leaked.
To have the public find out that Obama had this knowledge, and did not act on it, would have assured his loss in 2012. Ergo, his reluctant authorization of the raid.
The only question that remains is why his operational instructions to the Seal team virtually guaranteed Osama’s execution. A cynic might speculate that assassination was preferable to the possibility of subsequent “enhanced interrogation”.
May 5, 2011 @ 1:09 pm
News Flash,,,At Ground Zero today Obama stated ” Our Commitment to Justice Transcended Politics.” HoooRay,,,,,no more injustice of redistributing Honestly earned wealth to the Dishonest who do not earn it.
When Socialist Hell Freezes over.
May 5, 2011 @ 1:48 pm
What I keep looking/hoping for in Washington is “balance” and honesty amongst our lawmakers and the Whitehouse, but it is just hard to find these days. Obama and the progressives that dominated Congress since 2006 have blamed President Bush for everything bad that they could, and have taken credit for everything positive that they could, so far. This is not “balance” at all. Every adult in this country knows that nothing is “black or white” in terms of problem solving or perceptions, and as adults, we learn to give credit where credit is due, and take responsibility when it was our responsibility. This is how mature and savvy people behave, and our government should be setting examples of GOOD behavior, however, they are setting just the opposite, and I am getting really tired of it.
I particularly hate it when it becomes a personal attack, regardless of who it is. We have to stick to the facts, as best we know them, keep an open mind to new information, and stop this demonizing of people just because you do not agree with their opinions or policies.
And, I have to say it here, I see more of these personal attacks coming from the Democrat/progressive pundits and others in that political camp. I see strong armed union thug behavior at the street level, and so-called intellectual demonizing at the various levels above the streets all the way to the Whitehouse.
It would not have hurt any of the liberals (including Obama) to give some of the credit for getting Bin Laden to the Bush administration prior to the current administration. It just makes both good sense (because Bush set up the structures involved), and it is a show of class that is missing to date by this administration.
It just shows how ideology rules…and not facts or good commonsense, and good judgement. This behavior is very problematic at any level, but particularly at the top levels of our government.
May 5, 2011 @ 2:26 pm
Don’t you just love it…!
May 5, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
bin L is worth more dead than alive? Now he can be cast in the role of a mytar for good old Mo and the cause. I suspect al quida and Iran slipped out info and actually set O up.. I think this was 9-11 II? WWI and II were military wars. The Civil War was about civil rights. The holocaust was racism. Assassinations are political acts. Re Lincoln, JFK and RK. the assassination of the guy in austia that started WWII? And the assissation of bin L. Iran and Pakistan told us where bin was, etc. and the pakistani army, with 5 militray barracks did nothing to our helios?
Terrorism is a political war. And Islam is winning. We and them are not even on the same page. Or maybe terrorism is the army of a political system.
PS – O did this for his own politcial gain. It has nothing to do with national security. He was used big time by the muslims who are masters at shady deals and political warfare! Or worse, where he is actually on their side? We are essentially unarmed in political warfare. Part of the problem is our govt has abandoned the principles embodied in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence .. And today he is refocusing this issue on how great he is to pay homage to the first responders. What a cheap, shallow person he is. The noble thing to do would be for him to resign for implementing islamic justice of putting to death anyone without proof of guilt! Shooting bin is like al guida beheading the journalist and others, especially women.
Today is all theatrics for O!
May 5, 2011 @ 5:00 pm
“And on May 1, 2011, Osama bin Laden stopped running. Forever.”
UBL said we wanted to be a martyr, but he died like the coward he was. How special. His was a life of complete BS and he conned all of the simpleton Muslims for years and years.
May 5, 2011 @ 5:03 pm
Maybe so but they are still conned.
May 5, 2011 @ 6:58 pm
The anti-American and commnunist-loving New York Times is more dangerous than Bin laden could ever be. The Pulitzer prize is a joke just like the Noble prize. The sad aspect of it is that the NYT hides behind the First Amendment of the US Constitution that it hates. I think we must get rid of these people from power and influence because they are enemies within. US Constitution explicitly authorizes us to protect the citizens from enemies within.
May 5, 2011 @ 8:14 pm
I am just absolutely amazed by what I’m reading. Really. First let’s not be Orwellian here. American troops were court martialed during the the Philippine Insurrection for water boarding Filipinos. Water boarding was named in some of the indictments against the Japanese at the Tokyo war crime trials. American soldiers were court martialed for doing it in Viet Nam. The Inquisition used it. Since when is it acceptable for American interrogators to emulate the Holy Inquisition?
We ask liberals all the time to cite the article of the Constitution which authorizes . . . health care for example. So I’ll ask all of you, give me the article of the Constitution that authorizes the federal government to establish secret prisons, to send detainees to foreign countries to be tortured, to torture detainees ourselves. I don’t see anything in my copy of the document that remotely allows the government to do any of those things. Do any of you have a copy that allows these things? And don’t for a moment think that the Founders would support any of this, that TJ or Madison would back Bush and Cheney in what they did. Not for a single second would they support any of this. And if you all are honest with yourselves, you’ll admit I’m right.
We justify all this in the name of national security/national defense. Look back on the last century folks. The Nazis justified the Holocaust on the basis that the Jews were a threat to the country. The same in Rwanda. Every act of horror in the last century was done in the name of national security. The Soviets used that excuse too. Once you go down that road, once you start compromising your principles this way, it’s so very difficult to come back. How long will it be before those secret prisons you all support start holding people other than “terrorists”. “Enemies” can start becoming very broad very quickly. Ask the victims of any tyranny.
We’re told the Constitution doesn’t travel outside the country. I’m sorry but all federal employees, soldiers, interrogators, all of them take an oath to uphold and defend what folks? THE CONSTITUTION! That oath doesn’t cease when they get on an airplane. It doesn’t stop when their plane touches down at Bagram. Which means that that inconvenient Eighth Amendment probably still is binding on them.
We sent people to other countries to be tortured. Is this truly the act of a free constitutional republic based on the principles of the Founders? Remember the Canadian we sent to Cairo to be tortured? Only to find out later that he was innocent? Will you all support compensation for him and others horribly harmed due to our “excess”? Why not?
Mr. Elder, you and I when we were kids we read about secret prisons, but they were in places like the Soviet Union and other horrible places. And we used to say to ourselves that there was absolutely no justification, none whatsoever for doing that and we were glad we didn’t live in a country that would have secret prisons. Remember Mr. Elder? And yet here you are extolling their virtues. Why? Because we’re the “good guys” and it’s okay if “we” do it because our motives are good? Please explain to your readers why something that was totally unacceptable when Stalin did it is okay now because Bush and Cheney authorized it.
The horror that OBL perpetrated on this country was not the buildings lost or the people killed however tragic that was for the people and the families involved and it was so truly tragic. The true horror was the response he provoked the way he got us to throw the principles which this country was founded on under the bus as we went after him and those like him. As we emulate those we hate as we are becoming something the Founders would not recognize. Who truly could have imagined 10 years ago that conservatives who should be the staunchest supporters of human rights, the loudest opponents of government excess, of a government abuse of power, would be the loudest in their support of things like secret prisons, of torture, things that growing up we soundly condemned, things we swore would never happen here.
May 5, 2011 @ 10:12 pm
This is way too “Hysterical” for me! Catch a grip! War is hell and it always will be…
It is no time to coddle an enemy! Waterboard those creeps if it can save one American life! They chose to try to kill us, they can suffer the consequences. Don’t waste any sympathy here… We should be grateful that we have people strong enough to do what is necessary to preserve our freedom and protect our American way of life!
By the way….terrorists don’t have Constitutional rights! Those are for American citizens, just in case you are confused…
May 5, 2011 @ 11:03 pm
As a Veteran, I did take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. But, Those who are not citizens of the United States of America are not protected by the Constitution of the USA. That is why one can go through process of becoming a citizen. Our ENEMIES are just that: ENEMIES. They do not have rights except under the Geneva Convention. We Keep those. When UBL declared war on the USA by having several attacks and killing over 3000 people, He signed his own death warrant upon himself. Innocent men, women and children have suffered at his direction and then even in the end he hides behind a woman, and the SEALS have to shoot her in the leg to move her out of the way.
He had no rights. He took away his rights even before the twin towers went down.
Rock and Roll.
May 5, 2011 @ 11:15 pm
Maybe, Mr Obama did not like watching blood shed and and was a little squeamish in having to do that as the Commander in Chief of our Country. As a Christian it would have been a very difficult decision and to watch something like that; but, it know that it would help more people at the loss of life. While I do not agree with all of his policy, and when he does things, his politic, I have respect for him as a man for following through for what could have been just a total bombing of the entire sight. And making sure that the one leader was taken out.
The other thing is that: What one can do to others can be do to you and it is frightening to observe. We then begin to ask ourselves where does our security come from? Psalm 35.
May 6, 2011 @ 7:04 am
America First absolute makes my case for me doesn’t he? I mean really. We have people who are willing to go out and violate our fundamental principles, ignore the very basis this country was founded on to how does he put it “our American way of life?!” But Americans don’t create secret prisons, not when I was growing up we didn’t. That’s what the Soviets did, that’s what the communist Chinese did. And they were evil. And we weren’t like that, we were better than that. And American didn’t torture people for any reason. We recoiled in horror at the stories that came out of WWII, the stories of the Gestapo doing horrible things to people, the North Koreans, remember reading about what they did to OUR POW’s? And how we congratulated ourselves for being better than that? How we said, “we would never do that. We above that.”
And yet here we are, and now Americans are cheering, literally applauding an American adminstration that did all those things we condemned a few short decades ago. And America First, be honest, now when you hear about some country in Africa or when you hear about the Chinese having secret prisons of their own, how quick are you going to be to condemn them? Because now you and the rest of you get it, right? You’re more sympathetic aren’t you? You maybe are thinking, maybe they have to, maybe they have their reasons like we do.
If we continue down this road, if we accept all this in the name of “saving one life” if we accept all this in the name of preserving our freedom, how long do you think before we lose it anyway? Again, do you honestly think those secret prisons are going to continue to be used just for “terrorists”? How long do you think before others who are judged “threats” to the freedom of the country are sent there.
And you all realize right that the vast majority of the detainees were innocent of wrong doing? 80 percent or more? We tortured and abused so many who had nothing? Where is our concern for the innocent? Aren’t we supposed to as conservatives stand up for these people? Speak out for them?
We cannot continue this. Tom Paine is right, defend the rights of those you hate in order to preserve your own. Tell me, all of you why he’s wrong. Please. And answer my question. Cite me the article of the Constitution that authorizes the federal goverment to create secret prisons. To torture people, here or abroad for any reason. I’m still waiting for that citation. And give a quote from any of the Founders that supports the government doing any of this. Please?
May 6, 2011 @ 9:48 am
The Constitution gives the federal government the power to protect the United states and its people and does not stipulate how this is to be carried out. can you tell me where the secret prisons are? If you don’t have an answer how do you know that they truly exist. The North and the South both used torture in the Civil War. I not saying torture is right but I don’t place water boarding on the same level of torture as then or as our adversaries are doing and are willing to do. I know George Washington said after capturing 1000 Hessian soldiers to treat them with the same rights as we are fighting for. George was not fighting the same type of enemy, he was fighting soldiers not fanatics who have no regard for any non Muslim life.
IMPEACH OBAMA NOW! ! ! ! ! !
May 6, 2011 @ 10:25 am
Oh, for goodness sake. Why are so many men such pantywaists. Or maybe you aren’t a man but you’re still a pantywaist and anything BUT rational! Why on earth did you pick the handle rational conservative. You are neither.
Americans did what was necessary to protect our way of life in WWII and I’m sure there were some secret prisons and some outright torture going on. So be it. We survived and we were not under Hitler’s or Mussolini’s thumb.
Waterboarding is NOT torture. It is used in training our special forces. We watched a news reporter undergo it. Was it pleasant? No, of course not. It makes you think you are drowning but you do not drown. You are not injured. You still have your head when it’s over. If we do not stop radical Islam a lot of Americans won’t have their heads.
Pull up your big boy panties and stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Be grateful that we have rough MEN who stand between us and radical Islam.
And if you can’t be adult about it at least go take your smelling salts in private and stop embarrassing yourself here. I’m ashamed you are an American.
May 6, 2011 @ 11:13 am
You are right and I will try to answer your (rhetorical?) question. It is because this re-engineered society is a colossal failure. People try to cross the gender roles and consider them as a “one-size-fits-all” for everyone. This, of course, is just not true… thus you have your many pantywaists as you call them… or ‘feminized men’ as we call them (and they know who they are). I am sure they are ashamed of themselves.
We have young boys being brought up without their fathers… and as the generations come and go… even if they have a father around, he will no longer be able to set the positive example as he missed it himself. The chain has been broken. Frankly (and respectfully), women haven’t a clue how to teach a boy the nuances of being a man.
With a 50% divorce rate, the rate at which this is happening is accelerating… all for the sake of victimization. Divorce hurts the children most… but this fact seems to have little effect on stemming the big payday.
We have totally lost our moral compass in most parts of the country… so we have gangs, deadbeats, slackers, bullies, perverts, etc. More all the time.
May 6, 2011 @ 11:48 am
Lulu, you have given me a good laugh this morning, loved the post!
You gave that “hysterical he/she” its due desserts!